4 yrs for cutting down tree, no jail time for rape

You seem utterly fixated only on the damage to the tree. They damaged Hadrian’s Wall, a UNESCO World Heritage site. If it had been in China, they would have got up to 10 years; Italy up to 5; France up to 10. They really got off quite lightly, especially considering they won’t actually be in prison for 4 years.

The financial impact is due to the fixation on this particular tree, so it had to be preserved, seedlings taken, sampling sent around the country, the wall had to be repaired using a specialist, doubtless his services don't come cheap either....

Its a Sycamore, we treat them as "weeds" they grow up literally everywhere and are very fast growing.

We have an extremely stressed prison system & a country that has no money.

Do we really have the luxury of imprisoning non violent idiots for long terms?

Point proven

Well that is how it works in all sentencing! I mean some judgments are LONG but need to be due to common law.

anyway the link is in the thread it is fairly short and sets out exactly what the sentencing guidelines are for criminal damage and where this case fits including the aggravating and mitigating factors

it really does explain it all

includinf the fact it wasn’t mindless

Yes get them sweeping up, planting trees, doing useful stuff for the community. They'll probably come out hardened crims after 4 yrs banged up.

I've seen all I need to on the news. If the judge's non stop monologue at sentencing is anything to go by no I don't have a spare 3 months to trawl through court bumpf.

The sycamore tree was a lovely sight, standing alone as loads of others had been lopped down. These 2 should not have committed mindless vandalism but perspective is needed. A custodial sentence is ridiculously extreme.

You’re wasting your time, she’s not going to read up on the case. Her (incorrect) mind is made up.

Financial impact

anything under £5000 is magistrate

the sentencing judgment linked explains it all perfectly!

IMO they should have been given 4 years of strictly enforced community service instead, maybe every 50 weekends out of 52, doing something useful like litter picking.
Our prisons are full to bursting, and it costs the taxpayer a bomb to keep people inside.
But I dare say they’d probably plead a sudden disability/MH issues, and get out of it that way.

Exactly. The fixation over this one tree when as you say many others are cut down willy nilly is just staggering.

I’m happy these men got that sentence.
But absolutely YANBU that rapes and sexual assaults all too often do not incur anything like a sufficient penalty.

Yes because of the financial impact of it - anything under £5,000 doesn’t hit the crown court.

Prison is supposed to be a last resort, designed to protect society from certain people.

They cut down a tree, there used to be loads of trees up there, all cut down for firewood, no one gave a shit.

They deserved punishment but 4 years? what exactly are we being protected from?

A pub chain cut down a very old oak tree with TPO on it in London, will at worst, get a fine, passed on to their customers.

And you are missing mine - have you read any of the sentencing guidelines, Criminal Damage Act 1971 or the transcript from the judge?

the sentence fit the crime. We cannot simply write off white collar crime as victimless or as something that doesn’t deserve a criminal sentence. because you seem to be saying that the impact say of being punched and kicked is more than having £60,000 stolen which isn’t true.

it is akin to saying financial abuse isn’t as bad as physical abuse - which is wrong they are different but both still abuse

and this wasn’t mindless - it was calculated

'so if someone caused £60,000 plus damage to your property or stole £60,000'

I would expect a suspended sentence, or community hours, or a fine.

You seem to be missing my point. I'm not saying they shouldn't have been punished just not to this extreme.

Again what have you read about this crime?

'These vandals and rapists should be in prison. It shouldn't have to be either or in a civilised society.'

Vandals should not be in prison. What an utter waste of resources.

We jail more than most other European countries per capita.

I'd rather our money was spent on fixing real problems like Dentistry & roads than building prisons, which don't even deter criminals.

This country & its judiciary has always valued property above people.

Until quite relatively recently, there was a whole wood up there, trees cut down with zero consequence.

We cannot complain that the Govt is releasing criminals early but then jail people for many years for non violent offences.

We just need to build more prisons. That's what I'm angry about. Society at large is declining worse than ever but we are not building more prisons to house criminals.

I realise it's not as simple a erecting a building and saying ta daaaaa , it's hard to recruit staff to man them and no one wants one in their town but this is the problem. The ones we do have are all full.

These vandals and rapists should be in prison. It shouldn't have to be either or in a civilised society.

Bit you clearly don’t as you haven’t addressed any of the points asked regarding the financial aspect or impact on people.

so if someone caused £60,000 plus damage to your property or stole £60,000 (which yes is a different crime but still comparable) you would be fine with them getting a suspended sentence because it was just vandalism

and that is also failing to miss the other point - laws exist and sentences exist to stop people doing stuff - plenty don’t break the law because of the legal implications of doing so - sentences for criminal damage etc serve a vital purpose

so I ask again have you read any of the transcripts or about the judge?

They won’t serve 4 years, they’ll be out in less than 2 yeara.

Adding, now I’ve read some of the weirdly ‘it’s just a tree’ comments:

Things like the tree, like famous works of art, like the wonders of the world, are considered things of breathtaking beauty. They are protected, they are loved for one basic reason: they remind us what it is to be human, to be in awe, to hold things dear. Beauty is so important to humanity as a whole, so to destroy something beautiful in this way is to deliberately attack humanity as a whole.

I find it astounding some comments here reveal how far removed from this vital part of what makes life worth living some posters are. I feel sorry for them.

I think they should have had more for cutting the tree down, but I am glad they were sentenced.

I also wish the sentencing for rape was harsher. I don’t think that the tree penalty should be less because we are shit at penalising rape.

The point is, these idiots should have got longer in prison, and so should rapists.

So vandals do ~£60,000 of damage to yoir house, for a laugh.

Is it definitely not serious?