Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

It also demonstrates how people only look at the surface- what is being done/released in the press.

they have no idea what is being done behind the scenes, don’t consider what other knowledge or investigations the police are doing behind the scenes that they can’t release.

Nicola Bulley was one- even here long threads about what the police should be doing, that “expert” who said he could find her when the police hadn’t. Paedophile hunter groups as well, who seem to think police do nothing because it’s not live-streamed.

people like the o/p who are woefully misinformed but think they know better than the experts with years of experience.

Honestly, I don't understand why they didn't leave the country when she was still pregnant. They must have known they would be hunted in this country because of their SS history. They could have lived in their own way somewhere else where nobody would know them or ever heard of them. It's so strange they didn't leave.

Constance is still under his spell even now, after everything that's happened.

It appears from the BBC article linked in this thread, that they are both in thrall to each other and that the whole awful situation was a case of ‘folie à deux’ It doesn’t sound to me like she is a poor little rich girl being led astray by Gorden. Constance Marten is a very strong and confident personality by all accounts.

Just to say for the sake of accuracy, that when people mention that the couple often cancelled or didn’t turn up to contact visits with their older children, that was because they were trying to conceal her 5th pregnancy. Apparently prior to her becoming visibly pregnant, there were contact visits where it is reported that they appeared to be very much engaging with their children.

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/constance-marten-life-prison-jail-7vjrql7dh~

Sorry for the Times linke (paywall), but in the comments section it says she was awarded legal aid. I can't get my head around that.

What an appalling pair of evil people.

I’m also an adoptive parent and the thing that worries me now is that given that this has been such a high profile case, I sincerely hope that the other children and their adoptive parents are being appropriately and adequately supported.

No, I don’t feel the same. Exactly what do you think the police should have done differently? The emphasis was on finding the family as quickly as possible, before the baby could come to any harm - and clearly, sadly, even that wasn’t enough to find them in time.

This was not a case of a wonderful mother who developed pnd and started acting out of character. Her first four children had already been removed from her because she wasn’t prioritising their safety (and according to a report I read today, she failed to keep to the regular appointments arranged for her to meet up with those children, much to their distress).

She may have mental health problems. What about the baby's father? And even if they both do, the highest priority was, correctly, finding and safeguarding the baby.

After reading and listening to reports and the BBC insights it seems to me that all the agencies, including the police, did what they could within the laws to try and keep the children of this couple safe. It's very common to try and blame the actions of Agencies when tragic events happen, but the ultimate responsibility is with the choices those two made. By the reports there was ample opportunity for them to make one right decision, they didn't. The Police did what they considered was the most likely to reach a positive outcome based on far more information and experience than we will ever have. No blame lies with them.

Yes, if she said she fell herself, not much the police can do.

OP-they had repeatedly failed to engage with services, both to initial ‘softly softly’ approaches and to the later more necessarily formal approaches that were made until their children were removed for their own safety. They are delusional and paranoid whilst also having no understanding of how to care for a child safely. This ended tragically for Victoria. But it was only luck in my opinion that the older children did not also suffer a similar fate.
I don’t think the Police are at fault at all.

Now you've read how he'd already probably chucked her out of a window when pregnant and she refused to cooperate, leading the removal of the older ones, do you think that they might have been desperately trying to find them before he chucked her off a cliff with the baby or something like that?

I think the priority was the child. The police’s job was to get the baby to safety. As it seems she was a mother who chose a dangerous man over her children. Yes she may have many issues and running with her child to a different country could have worked if the car didn’t catch fire. But this man tried to kill her by pushing her out of a window apparently. Sadly it all backfired their plan and the police’s and the baby lost her life. I think she is probably controlled by this man.

It was never proved

Unless we have a totalitarian state - heaven forfend - it is impossible to have zero possibility that from time to time, odd, selfish and difficult people will do awful things.

HOLY MARY the police were trying to find and protect the baby! I am no fan of the police but lord, this is a huge push to try and say they were accountable in any shape or form for the death of that baby!

This post demonstrates that the police and social services really can’t win! Usually they are accused of not doing enough to protect children, but this time apparently they didn’t appease the abusive parents enough! Knowing what the harm this disgusting pair did, to all of their children, I hope they throw the bloody book at them.

given their background do you think they would have believed that for one second? What i do see here is an argumant for compulsory contraception for both men and women. I doubt it will ever become law and should be rarely used if it ever did.

In cases of domestic violence or abuse it does worry me that the default action seems to be removal of the child(ren) rather than support of the mother.

Ive seen many children removed in DV cases but the mother has had chance after choice to either leave the abuser or have the children removed. Everyo e knows its not as si.ple as just walking away. Social Services understand a d know the difficulties around coercive control, threats, fiancial abue etc. A huge amount of support is offered by social services with issues around involving police help, change of living arrangements, financial support, specific counselling but often the women will stay with the bloke. Not always, of course, but im always shocked by the number of women that let family members have an SGO or let their kids go to a placement rather than give their fella up. They justify it by saying the children would prefer to live somewhere else.

Same with women who would rather live with a sex offender. It blows my mind every single time I see or have a case like this at work.
Best ( or worse depending on how you you view it) reason for staying with a sex offender, when two of the kids were primary school age was ' well he can't do anything now, he struggles walking these days'.

@Commonsense22

Im staggered by your post

Do you seriously think there was the remotest possibility that after abusing and neglecting four children they would have had a miraculous change in behaviour to work with social services so they could have kept that poor baby.
And to shatter another adoption myth - we don't dance off into some idyllic future with the fairies and elves.
Our children carry their past, some very heavily.
I consider myself lucky, I have a happy, healthy 21 year old at university. He has a good, positive future ahead of him. What people dont understand is the struggle to get him to this point.
And believe me, our struggles were paltry compared to many.

Why is it when a mother does things like this everyone pulls the sympathy and mental health cards o poor her she didn't mean it she has mental health problems no harm done
Yet when a father does the exact same thing it light the torches and grab the pitchforks no questions asked
Really annoys me let's stop making this behaviour of harming children ok because a so called mother did it

This, the police forces and there was many had to find them they probably didn't release that much information on the pair because they didn't want to spook them, but it didn't matter what they said they were never going to give up their "rights" these people neglected their children so much that every one of them were in care or dead, constance Marten went against "authority " because she thought she was some free spirit and knew better, her husband was a violent man that she chose.

“What I keep coming back to is this: the police and media didn’t need to broadcast a full-scale manhunt in the way they did.“

Also on this point, if your new born baby was Victoria, how long would you want the police and media to twiddle their thumbs for before they intervened?

Thanks for this reality check. I think many people don’t realise how high the threshold is for social services intervention let alone the threshold for the child/ren to be removed. It really isn’t something that happens without there being serious harm or risk beyond what anyone would consider reasonable.

What I keep coming back to is this: the police and media didn’t need to broadcast a full-scale manhunt in the way they did.

What I keep coming back to is that two dangerous adults had gone on the run with a newborn baby, and how the hell do you find people on the run and deliberately in hiding without getting the public on board? They had no clear idea where they were, there was even speculation they might have left the country, and even if the police across the nation dropped all the piffling other stuff they have to deal with like rapes, murders, assaults, burglaries, etc just to spend their entire days looking in very nook and cranny of the country, there wouldn't be the manpower to do it!

You are being ridiculous.

The USA is lucky to be able to send rapists etc back to their own country. She chose to be with this man knowing his record, their children needed to be protected from both of them. I have no sympathy for her at all, she constantly rejected any help and actively evaded that support, her last baby paying the price. Hopefully her other children are safe and happy and will never have contact with them in future.

A softly softly approach wouldn’t have helped, they are so anti agency and help they wouldnt have believed it. The mass coverage helped as it got everyone knowing what they looked like.

a side note, but why the ChatGPT opening posts, if you feel passionate about this case explain in your own words, so sick of ai slop.