Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

As far as I'm aware, adopted children in the UK usually have letterbox contact with their birth parents. Frequent contact would be in the parents' best interests, not the child's.

Have you any idea how much time services spend trying to keep violent men away from vulnerable women, and how much effort some women go to hiding the fact that the violent man is back again.

She chose repeatedly to be with him, in the face of extensive support. And yes trauma and poor mental health will play its part but at some point the children’s safety needs to come first. It’s incredibly difficult to remove children. Social work need to evidence there’s no other way to keep them safe but to remove them. How many chances do you give a woman while her children are being neglected and exposed to violence.

Absolutely and they could have given up their own jackets to protect baby Victoria from the elements.

yeah not well=psychotic

I think they might have had more of an opportunity to engage that way with her had she told anyone about being pregnant with Victoria. According to the reporting, had they not found a placenta in a burning car, they wouldn’t have known Victoria even existed. So guess it was sort of panic-stations after that, especially against the backdrop of 4 previously removed children.

its a hard one to balance. Undoubtedly she wasn’t well, and that’s of course not her fault. It never is in any case, but especially her upbringing just seemed a bit lacking in the emotional dept. Her parents probably have a lot to answer for. But at what stage do you put a parents’s mental health/ struggles to one side and focus on reducing harm to the child?

I did find reading about both of their behaviour in court quite upsetting, though. Again, she’s not well, but the sort of indignation, arrogance, lack of remorse shown was quite jarring. If my actions had lead to the death of my daughter in the way hers and her partners have, I’m not sure I’d want to keep on living, let alone defend myself and flirt with my co-defendent.

I hope that they are locked up for a very long time, from the reports it does seem she changed after being part of a cult like church in Africa, however the harm they both caused to their children who were placed in care and their 5th child (the baby found in the bag) is just awful. Their other four children will suffer and no doubt have issues growing up, takes a hard-hearted parent to not care and according to the reports, she Constance didn't seem to care about her children. I hope all of their children do somehow manage to live happy and fulfilling lives.

Marten was actually thrown out of the cult after a few months. A cult that brainwashes their members. A cult that is happy to abuse their cult followers. A cult that totally control their followers every move. Sometimes even for years after they leave. Even those nutters didn’t want her says a lot in my view.

Mums can be horrible people, too. Being pregnant or having children doesn't give you a halo and a get-out-of-gaol-free card.

She's been scared and desperate since 2017? Even when he was in prison, she couldn't work with services?
Is that what you think about all parents of dead children? Star Hobson, Arthur Labinjo-Hughes, Victoria Climbie, Peter Connelly, Daniel Pelka, Abiyah Yasharahyalah.
This was part of SW training, keeping the child's interests at the top and getting rid of bias. You cut the, trust fund, posh, mother no more slack, than the unemployed Mum from a sink estate, because it's about the child. There was no working with them. Services had tried for eight years.

Apparently he dragged her back into the house and wouldn’t let the paramedics inside to treat her.

Indeed - that's what I took from it too.

@Simonjt if you think biting sarcasm is appropriate in this case then I’m not sure it’s going to be a conducive discussion tbh. Some things aren’t funny, they aren’t an appropriate place to be sarcastic or ironic or whatever.

You’ll of course note I wasn’t in a relationship with a rapist and on the run from the police either. But in general I think there is an argument about how to support mothers in abusive relationships and the irreversible and closed nature of adoption.

It is on bbc sounds im sure its titled The Trial of..

Probably because she would have ignored the ban?

in that scenario you’re relying on her keeping away from him, and reporting when he breaks the ban.

if she is actively engaging in a relationship with this man, a ban won’t stop her from seeing him, and giving him access to the children.

as people have pointed out, she had the financial means and family support to get away from him. She chose to stay in the relationship. If the children really mattered to her she could have arranged a new life anywhere.

even her family felt they could not keep the children safe which is why they were adopted rather than placed in kinship care.

when women repeatedly show they put their relationships above the safety of their children, they risk the children being removed.

I have to disagree. Looking at the whole story, what sort of man he is, the reasons for their children being removed, her history, their history, the total lack of care for a newborn baby, the police could only have one aim which was to try to find the baby before she died. They did this in the only way they could, with urgency.

The Daily Mail ran a daily podcast of the first trial

But it’s the lesser of 2 evils.

If she had not had access to proper and competent legal representation she would have launched appeal after appeal.

If a justice system is to be worth to name the vilest of us need access to it.

From what I have read her parents likely wouldn't have passed assessments anyway, they sound neglectful themselves

She claimed she fell out of the window so it either never went to criminal court or he wasn’t convicted of it. Family and criminal courts have different levels of certainty required.

What is the podcast referred to in this thread?

I don’t think that this level of detail even crossed their minds.
It was good old fashioned cuntinesss and not giving a single fuck about anyone but themselves.

That was probably the thrill for her. She joined a cult at 19 where sexual coercion was rife.

This is really not "a few things" going wrong. This is a woman choosing to stay with a man with a history of violent rape, repeatedly putting him before her children even when he pushed her out of a window. Despite £2K being found in the car, they chose not to put the baby into coat and hat, and they repeatedly put their own wishes ahead of the baby's safety. Do you really think you would easily find yourself in this situation? If it was a choice between your baby being safe, warm and well cared for, or you going on the run in midwinter and keeping the baby inadequately dressed and wrapped up in a tent, what choice would you make?

She chose a man over her children. It’s as simple as that.

She may not having known from the beginning about his past (which I actually doubt) but as soon as she had the information she could have cooperated with the police and social services and left him for good so she could stay with her children.

She decided to pick him over her kids. No sympathy for her, only her children.

It was a trust fund