Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

Listened to an interesting podcast earlier - that there was no physical or dna evidence of the rape, only his own confession when he 14 with no adult present, the women who accused him never mentioned an English accent. I imagine this is what he spun to her and she clearly believed it, and added to her her fear of the Authorities. Sad sad case that we will never know the truth about.

The police were chasing killers.

Get over it.

At what point do you think it was the parent's responsibility?

Why should they have had visitation after adoption? Those children needed a clean start

Gordon was convicted in the US. What was our role in that?

The way people some posters are describing her as “vulnerable” or having a “vulnerable” past is bizarre. More like entitled, anti-social and selfish.

I find it intriguing how coming from extreme privilege and from severe deprivation can both fuck people up and lead to them making very unwise choices.

The woman can choose to put her own life in danger but she cannot choose to put her children’s lives in danger.

It would be an extreme lack of safeguarding to allow children to remain in a violent environment.

I do actually feel sorry a bit for the fact that they will now be separated.

I'm not sure there are enough 😱emojis in the world for this. He threw her out of a window when she was four months pregnant and then tried to block paramedics from getting treatment for her. They killed their baby together and asked to go for a coffee during the subsequent trial because they were bored. And you think it's a shame that they'll be sent to prison and separated? Jesus Christ.

He did do something here - attacking two police officers while CM was having their baby. He was jailed.

Remember, a narcissist is never wrong.

Publicly, they could’ve taken a softer tone — something like: “We are not pursuing this as a criminal matter. We just want to make sure mum and baby are safe. Constance, you’re not in trouble, please come forward.”

@Siff initial messages are always along the lines of "please come forward, we want you and baby to be safe". And Constance's father did an appeal along those lines. But Constance and Mark both knew full well that the child would have been removed if they'd gone to police / social work etc, however the appeal was worded

The way people some posters are describing her as “vulnerable” or having a “vulnerable” past is bizarre. More like entitled, anti-social and selfish. She was a free adult with plenty of opportunities and enough money to make any number of choices. Her family even offered to look after the children she had with the violent psychopath rapist. Bar insanity (psychosis) the law treats everyone over the age of 18 as adults. There can be mitigating circumstances sometimes but the essential element and financial foundation of law is adult responsibility. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever.

This 100%. Not even an attempt to support her head, roughly placed in the buggy, in just a babyrgro. I really have no patience with the viewpoint that she needed help. The only one who needed help was the baby who she'd rather see dead than walk away from a disturbingly violent man.

Retired GMP officer explains his key role in launching the search for Constance Marten and Mark Gordon | Greater Manchester Police

This link explains a bit more about the police search. I couldn't disagree more with the OP - and I have followed this case from the very beginning, including The Trial podcast of the first trial. Initially, the police messaging was all about establishing whether mother and baby were OK, since she had not accessed any ante-natal services. I thought the police, prosecutors (especially Tom Little KC) and Judge Mark Luckcraft were amazing in their handling of this complex, tragic case, and really left no stone unturned in getting justice for baby Victoria. The only people I feel bad for are the surviving children - and maybe CM's family.

Agree

Its not the police's fault, the fault is 100% hers and her partners. I'm so sick of people going softly on others because they have 'issues'. They - constance and her partner - knew right from wrong. They literally dumped their baby in a shopping bag in a shed. That was wrong. The police were desperate to find her to save her baby.

Lived in their own way?? My parents lived in their own way with us - in a bus, minimal school, lots of time living abroad etc.

We were all still fed, clothed appropriately and cared for/ educated.

These parents apparently didn't give a shit about their kids, especially poor Victoria with not even a baby blanket when her parents are wearing winter jackets and scarves.

I don't see anything wrong with living an alternative/off grid life but not at the cost of neglecting a baby! Do you really think they'd have taken more care of her in any other country?

I agree. If she hadn't had access to such huge amounts of money, I doubt they would have got far and little Victoria could have been still alive. She was estranged from her family, yet happy to take family money.

She’s got a long history of unreliability. Selfish woman and I hope they both get long sentences.

She had the money but she didn’t have the capability to be a good mother, she was selfish beyond anything most of us could imagine. Had she not been wealthy then she wouldn’t have been able to afford to drive around the country and perhaps wouldn’t have had the entitled attitude that the rules didn’t apply to her, and perhaps her baby would still be alive now.

My God 34 phones but not a waterproof pram cover or snow suit for the baby

I completely disagree - she was a grown woman who had her 4 children removed and placed for adoption, she was clearly unfit to raise another child as has been proven here. She put herself before a completely defenceless baby. Shame on you for laying the blame at the police’s door.

@Eric1964 I think OP underwent a dramatic conversion around page 3 or 4 earlier when she'd bothered to read the facts instead of spouting nonsense.
We haven't heard from her since and she did concede she hadn't realised there was a bit more to it.

Hasn't stopped a few other posters finding any and every excuse for what happened. But the majority have engaged in a thoughtful discussion.

Something that doesn't add up to me in this case is that CM didn't come from a poor family. Are we supposed to believe that she didn't have savings in the bank to dress her child adequately or pay for a flat or air b and b?

Once she knew the police were looking for her, she may well have avoided using cards or withdrawing cash as it would have made it easier for the police to track roughly where she was via her bank transactions.

I disagree that the police incited a witch hunt which 'forced' them off grid. All the evidence is there that they were already in the process of that anyway! They had 34 burner phones FGS! Normal surveillance approaches couldn't work because they were moving up and down the country, changing cars, they had all these burner phones. They withdrew large sums of cash and paid for everything using cash to avoid being traced.

Sure, they may not have ended up camping on the south downs, but they have form for having done that before. Before having their first baby they were camping behind a tesco in a similar style tent, and they fully intended to raise their first child in that tent. It was at this point social services placed CM in mother and baby units I believe.

So actually, I believe this was inevitable whether the police put out a statement or not - but they hoped that the statement and press interest may help them find her quicker.

I do believe their actions were not those of sane people, but I don't want to diminish or justify what they did. CM prioritised her relationship over her children.

I do believe MG was coercive, controlling and abusive. I believe he isolated her and made her feel as though she had no one else. I also believe her past made her vulnerable to manipulation.

However, I do believe that doesn't make her less culpable. But I believe MG is actually evil and a complete sociopath. I hope they both are locked up for a long time because it is abundantly clear that if they were to be released within the next decade (at least), they will simply have more children together.

Although her money was probably an attraction to him.

There was money bundles in the car that caught fire, and she did have money because they were using users and taxis and moving about counties so she had plenty of cash until it ran out and they went into the woods In a tent.