Constance Marten case — I feel the police have some responsibility too

Press attendance at family court hearings is being trialled currently. I had a journalist in a hearing recently, though I don't know where/if she published anything about it.

I agree with everything bad that’s been said about these two.

however, I also think the media strategy was wrong because it became a dramatic manhunt which put Victoria at greater risk as it escalated their crazy behaviour.

had they not released the information to the public but only to police forces and other authorities they might have found her in time

She would have had other options before letting her kid freeze to death. Homeless shelters, sofa surfing etc. She could have got warm clothes from a charity shop, she could have used cash etc.

I am using Amber Hurd as an example because she made herself out to be a victim of domestic violence when she was (in fact) a perpetrator of domestic violence. People believed her and saw her as a victim, at least initially, simply because she was a woman. (Just to add I am not using the comparison for any other reason and not equating them in any other way.)

Unless there are mitigating circumstances, the law treats adult women as - well - adults. This is played out in a court of law where adults have to take responsibility for their actions - except in the case of psychosis. Mitigating factors are sometimes taken into consideration, which is right imo. But I don’t think CM is admitting she did anything wrong at all.

I genuinely don't understand how people can possibly try to defend her?

My ex beat me, controlled me and emotionally abused me for 9 years. I put up with it because it was just me being harmed and I had no self esteem.

The moment he kicked my dog, I was done. I finished with him that day. I don't have kids but how can you even imagine endangering your own child just because you're desperate to stay in a relationship? I found my strength to leave because I didn't want my dog to be harmed. Surely if you have any kind of motherly instinct you would do the same (at least!) for a child??

Constance is no victim.

I agree, she is vulnerable, she is a fantasising about life and incapable of taking care of children. SS made the correct decision, it is unfortunate that she got pregnant again, unfortunately forced sterilisation wasn't an option.

Agreed, all this "she's a vulnerable woman" bollocks does my head in, she's an evil piece of shit pure and simple.....that poor baby.

I would be inclined to agree with you, except I found an article that went into the previous children's adoptions.
The first baby was born in Wales, where she pretended to have an Irish accent, and pretending that ye wasn't the babies father. During that pregnancy an alert was raised because she was living out of a van, had initial booking in appointment then disappeared for 3 months.
When they clicked it was her, he beat up the two female police officers who attended the hospital. He went to prison for 20 months, she and the baby were placed together but under supervision, she left the baby in a flat alone. She didn't appear to be very attentive to the baby.
Then it seemed there were DV issues which saw the 2 babies removed.
They set up supervised visits, the couple didn't attend 19 of them.
3rd baby, she fell or was pushed out of the window, she was screaming for help inside the property they lived at, whilst he tried to turn paramedics away. They say she had no injuries, she had a torn spleen, and required a blood transfusion.
Baby was born during covid, she decided she was going out, left baby on the ward, was out overnight, and refused to do a covid test so they didn't let her back in and lost that baby too.

She had access to money. She decided not to buy a house.

If she was pregnant and concerned with having her baby taken away, why didn't she flee early in her pregnancy? Why didn't she go abroad and have her baby? Live in a house and provide a good, stable, happy upbringing for that child? Instead of fleeing to a tent in freezing cold conditions? Instead of having that poor baby underdressed for the weather? Instead of sleeping upright with baby on her, that lead to suffocation?
Why did she, at the end put that poor babies body into a shopping bag with dirty nappies?

I don't think she's been mistreated here at all. I feel for all 4 of her children who are victims of their parents feckless behaviour.

I know of a woman whose family took parental responsibility of her child in a private court case simply because they thought they could offer the child a more lavish lifestyle - more holidays, private schooling, tutors and private sports facilities.

No, you don't, @Pancakesandcream33, because I can guarantee that that never happened.

Not as vulnerable as her baby. Who is now dead because of her choices

This just isn’t true - what actually happens is the mother is expected to leave the violent partner but consistently prioritises the man over her children. It’s not as black and white as it may seem and rightly the priority is to get the children out of a violent situation

Haha...OK...so we cite Amber Heard as an example here. OK. Two things can be true, someone can be a total prick (to put it lightly) and also be a victim too. But it seems we like to fit people in boxes of good vs evil and there is to be no grey in between.

ok 😂

Fucking boring mentality isn’t it? Why does it always have to be someone else’s fault.. do the police and social services etc need to wipe everyone arses for them ffs so sick of this blame society!

There was absolutely no evidence she was “abused”. In fact the BBC today said that there is no evidence of this at all. There is no evidence that she was “clearly vulnerable” either. It’s incredible how people are excusing her behaviour.

You don’t have anywhere near enough information to even begin to question the police tactics. Just another day, another police bashing thread on Mumsnet

OP you sound like a bleeding heart with no real life experience. Don’t be so naive. Them and only them are at fault. People need to start taking full responsibility for their actions. Don’t excuse this horrendous pair by blaming the police. Your sympathy should lie with those poor children. All of them, not just baby Constance. Hopefully they will stop having children now,poor things don’t stand a chance with parents like that.

Damned if they do and damned if they don’t. The people responsible are people who have been found guilty. Nothing more and nothing less!

I see that, I know you weren’t saying that. The question was for people generally, since people keep using the line that she was vulnerable. I don’t think I said people can never be vulnerable either btw.

It was probably more about rebellion than actually wanting to parent the baby. They probably bonded over how "it's us against the world" and "nobody tells us what to do".

She was clearly vulnerable. Money does guarantee good mental health, her DM brought her to Africa to tame her, when she was most like ill to begin with, instead she was abused, falling in love with a convicted rapist is not normal behaviour either.

Before I say more, I want to be clear, I still believe she bears full responsibility for her actions. In my view, she is entitled, has likely always had her own way, and may well believe she’s more intelligent than those around her.

That said, I do believe she was vulnerable to falling into a coercive, abusive and controlling relationship. Her background paints a picture of instability and deep indoctrination. At the age of 9 her father abandoned the family. Not long after, her mother became deeply involved in an evangelical Christian church, bringing Constance along with her. Eventually, her mother took her to Lagos on a so-called ‘mission’ linked to what is now widely considered a cult. The group’s leader has been reported to have abused his Western followers. This happened when Constance was around 19, her mother returned to the UK leaving her behind in Nigeria. By that point, Constance had experienced a full decade of emotional chaos and religious extremism.

Mark didn’t disclose his criminal conviction until they were ‘married’ in Peru and she was already pregnant. By then, she had severed ties with her friends and family.

I believe that if she had never met MG, and had instead found herself in a healthy relationship, this tragic outcome might not have occurred. It’s possible, of course, that she has a pattern of being drawn to toxic dynamics, but in MG's case, I believe he would have been abusive in any relationship he was in, and that any children in his care would likely have been at risk.

None of this is to excuse her behaviour, it remains deeply troubling and indefensible. But the situation is undeniably complex. Perhaps, as a woman and as a mother, I find it almost impossible to comprehend how another mother could allow this to happen. And maybe, at its simplest and most horrifying, the truth is that they were both just… evil and by saying she's 'vulnerable' I'm just trying to justify how a mother could do it....I dunno. It's so so sad.

From what I’ve read she could have been trying to help her get back on track after difficult teenage years ….

I didn't say she was vulnerable.

In fact I specifically said "I'm not saying she was".

When you're so invested in the row that you can't read the post you're quoting properly it's generally time to step away I find.

Their "bond" and behaviours puts me in mind of a Folie à deux. Of course I am not attempting to diagnose them but they share such extreme, entrenched and tangled beliefs that there must be some profound co-dependent stuff going on. It is no excuse for their abhorrent and cruel neglect of baby Victoria which led to her tragic death. The way they treated her body made me feel sick, if only she had been found alive and had the chance to be placed with a loving family.

I've not the full thread so this may have been covered, but how come when he was sent back to the UK he didn't serve more of his sentence? I'm not sure how this works but he had only served 20 years of a 40 year sentence. Surely he should have served some more of that, even if only 10 years.

Hoping someone knows how this all works.

Edited for typo and for clarity