to think people with nice parents have no clue what toxic parents are like?

When I was 15 my toxic drunk alcoholic mother lost her footing on the stairs and fell all the way down. I was secretly wishing she’d die as a result of this she’d caused sobmuch destruction. She didn’t - just got up and blamed everyone else! Classic narc!

I think they often fail to appreciate how complex some families can be and how things are not always straightforward. In my case it goes back generations and my parents never really learned how to parent us. I lowered my expectations of one of my parents, now passed, and cut ties with the other as they were too disruptive to my life. I don't miss them although I do wish things had been different. I concentrated on parenting my own now adult children. So far (fingers crossed) it's going well but I don't tell many people know about my own family. As you say, it's just too alien to a lot of people.

“You only get one mum”

If only these people knew the abuse I had from that ‘one mum’. Literal abuse. Worse thing is people excuse all her evil (not bad - evil) because she was a teen mum too.

I couldn't begin to understand the effects a toxic upbringing has on children having never experienced it or witnessed it close to hand, but every now and then I meet a really self centred and cruel adult who is vindictive and dam right nasty. Then I hear they have children and I only hope they are different with their children. But I don't deep down think they will be and can't really comprehend what damage they will be doing to their children.

I certainly didn’t have perfect childhood and if I really wanted too ,I could analyse every mistake my parents made ,and go down a rabbit hole .

Fully understand that some people did have a hideous upbringing and feel awful for everyone where this was the case .

Generally my sister and I have good memories and miss our parents dearly.
As a parent I sincerely hope that my children will understand that no parent is perfect .My daughter is a social worker for child protection and obviously sees firsthand the worst case scenario’s.

The opposite is true too.

I have a very complicated relationship with my mother and I posted about a situation with her a few months ago, under a different name. One poster would not stop coming back to ask why I even cared what she thought and could I just not see her again as she is so horrible. This poster did not understand the years and years of manipulation, gaslightling and conditioning I have experienced and just kept coming back asking questions like 'but why do you even care?', and seemed genuinely baffled that I couldn't just switch off my emotions and go non contact when my mother was clearly so problematic. The whole exchange made a very difficult period all the more difficult and in the end I told her it was obvious she had never experienced what I had and she should just be grateful that she didn't understand the maze of fear, obligation and guilt that I was trying to navigate my way through.

Similarly, on another occasion, I was signposted to a well known mumsnet thread for people with toxic parents. I told my story and was told that my mother was a narcissist and my father was her enabler and I tried to give more context, to add the nuance that I was working through, the confusion of having warm memories and happy times, and family relationships that did have love and warmth in them but were tainted by some very deep wounds and trauma but this concept that 'I'm sorry to tell you that your mother is a narcissist and your father is her enabler l!' was parroted back to me to the point where I felt like I was screaming into the abyss and I still feel tears of anger prickling my eyes when I think about it.

It's not that I don't know my mother has narcissistic tendencies, that she had damaged me and that she has treated me badly through the years, or that my dad had his eyes on other priorities when I was growing up and didn't fully understand what was going on, but my parents are real people and not just labels. I love my mother but I hate being around her, most of the time. My father is my rock and if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't have a shred of self esteem, even if he was, in many way, absent emotionally in the past.

I am always worming my way through my childhood and adolescence, and my twenties and thirties like a cork screw, very slowly and sometimes painfully. I hate being rushed along that process by anyone who feels like they know better, by people who have never had to work it out or those who came out the other side of their trauma and want others to reach the finish line in the same way they have.

But honestly why would they understand?

I think with parents the number of people that don't understand is way higher.

If you tell people you are divorcing your husband because he is toxic/manipulative/abusive, in general people cheer you on and want to support you. They don't tell you that you will regret it or that you will miss him or that the abuse can't really be that bad.
Swap out husband for "parents" (or particularly "mother") and suddenly the number of people who think you are exaggerating or that your parents are wonderful multiplies.

Those with nice parents can’t comprehend toxic parents. When my abusive father died I struggled not to be angry at the expressions of sympathy. I have grieved the fact that I don’t feel the way others do about their parents, been in therapy for years to come to term with this, as well as the damage he did to me, my siblings and my mum. But no, some people don’t get it, and often don’t even seem to believe or want to acknowledge that not all parents are lovely.

Omg yes this.

When I get a nasty text from my mum my OH suggests I just write "fuck off" and be done with it. He has no idea the days, weeks, months, of non-stop faux crying and then anger and rage I would have to endure, and she would continue to bring it up years later and tell everyone what a horrible daughter I am.

"But she's your mum!"

She also humiliated me time and again throughout my entire teenage and adult life.

Hard agree.

'But she's your Mum!' 'You've only got one Mum!'

Shit people can become parents- and giving birth doesn't just make you a decent person. I think it's that centuries old idea of Mum- protector, nurturer, loving, caring. Everyone knows the idea of 'Mummy Bear' who will die to defend her children. It's hard for people to consider that some parents who will happily push you into danger to save themselves; it goes against everything we value as a society. That's why although I find it so annoying, but I can see why some people are just unable to understand this.

I once managed a lady who had to have a long period of time off because she had discovered a parent had committed a horrific crime (they’d since died, she found out posthumously). I was very sympathetic, as I could imagine how awful the discovery must have been for her. My manager, who didn’t know the reason kept saying “I don’t understand why she needs so much time off” (I’d simply said, she’d had some very difficult news and had been signed off for stress) and “I only had a few weeks off when my parents died and that is the most awful thing anyone could go through” and all I could think is gosh what a privileged life you’ve had to think that a parent dying of old age is the worst thing you can imagine going though. It’s tragic and hard, but just demonstrated such a small understanding of what happens in the world.

@Ihitthetarget I think it sounds a lot like you do understand the pain of toxic parents even though yours were loving. In contrast to @Praying4Peace whose comment suggests she doesnt.
Yes we all have crummy days as parents when we get it wrong. And our parents did too. That is nothing to do with being a toxic parent. Not even vaguely.

I’m not keen on your AIBU?, but yes. You can’t imagine toxic parents unless you have them.

I had a very privileged upbringing and my mother was never abusive to me as such but she was certainly toxic. I’ve been NC for 7 years as she brings nothing positive to my life. I can’t remember the last time she said something nice to me.

I never knew going NC was a ‘thing’ until I read about it on the internet - in real
life nearly everybody assumes you must have a relationship with your parents because, well, they’re your parents. So no, YANBU.

As a result I don’t really talk about it to people, unless they’re perceptive enough to notice that I never talk of my mother and ask about her.

A comment made earlier really hit home - that you won’t grieve when they’ve gone, as you’ve already spent years grieving for the parent you deserve and wish you had.

You need to protect yourself from
ignorance that is harmful. Do not explain anything to people that choose not to hear you. I share my life with those I am absolutely certain will understand and empathise (and not set me back by triggering fog) Anyone that truly values and loves you will want to know your whole story - everyone else gets a bland non story or nothing at all.

Truth. And it's hard to know why really - I mean, women with wonderful husbands don't deny that domestic abusers exist. These "but famiiiiily!!!" type comments when told that someone isn't lucky enough to have a good family are reliable indicators of a person who's pretty dense.

I love that! Pollyanna Gobshites - brilliant!

I had very troubled parents who caused all manner of trouble and damage - I just accept it now but people who have more grounded parents just don't understand.

Hard to vote on this.

I am lucky and had incredibly loving parents. So although I can u derstand and empathise on a rational level, I can't truly know what it's like to have toxic parents. However, I don't think it's unreasonable to tell others that I miss them, as you put in the op.

I do think it's unreasonable to assume everyone should feel the same. However, if an aqaintance told me a parent had died I'd give platitudes/ express sympathy as that's the cultural norm.

Also, we can all make assumptions, shown by this thread. Not rtft, but a pp said its harder to grieve a poor relationship than a good one - in my case not true. Dp has a distant relationship with his parents and wasn't too impacted when his dad died. I had a great relationship with my dad and still miss him 20 years later/ grieve that my dc missed out on him etc.

Yep, absolutely. Or even if you work to overcome the fear and start to lay down normal, healthy boundaries, they will be incensed at this insurrection, and their own fear that the 'worm will turn', and will go on the attack - turning your family and friends against you, making up lies about how you literally attacked and hurt them sooo much and when they were only trying to heeeelp...

The Flying Monkeys will be summoned. They will not stop until they have 'won' this bout of the power battle. What they won't do is say 'Oh yes, I see your point, I will try not to be so vicious, envious and sabotaging in future...'.

On the very rare occasions I speak to my mother, I consider I've done well if we last more than 10 minutes before she calls me a "selfish cow" or "ungrateful bitch".

Oh god - my mum says that all the time! I am in no way asking her to be perfect, I am asking her to take some responsibility for what she does and to care when she does and says things I find very hurtful.

In fact she turns it round so the very mentioning of it is an attack on her and she goes into victim mode.

I have had 56 years of having to look after her emotional wellbeing - never once has she given a stuff about mine. Not when I was little or a teen or a suicidal 20 something.

She has never brought anything positive to my life.

That book made an impression on me too.