to think people with nice parents have no clue what toxic parents are like?

:D

I had my in-laws carefully explained to me on another thread. This patchouli-scented individual managed to precisely identify me as a selfish and callous bitch from a few mere posts, but could also tell me in great detail about my in-laws kind and loving natures in spite of never having met them, and their only evidence of their behaviour being my own fucking words.

(Incidentally I had initially described an "Ok-ish compromised relationship with MIL", who would have been very surprised indeed by the patchoulis description of her.)

If people don't like that you're estranged from a parent, ask them 'would you tell your child to keep going back to the person who was abusing them?' This will shut them up.

Even though I'm a widow, I've never once felt the urge to tell someone with an abusive husband "Oh well, no one's perfect. Lucky you still having a husband. You'd miss him if he went." Because I'm not dim.

When I was 5, I told my teacher my dad had died. It was wishful thinking. The bastard waited until I was 47 to actually die & I felt nothing - no sadness, happiness or relief, just nothing. Lately I've started to mourn the father I wish I'd had, I never allowed my brain go there before because it felt like self-pity, but letting that rage out has been very therapeutic. As I age, I'm noticing that a happy childhood really does = better adult life in the majority & that's made me even more angry. Anyone who's had a less than adequate childhood really should seek help to unpick & come to terms with it. It damages a person in ways you don't realise until you've got a lot of life experience under your belt. I wish I'd dealt with all of this when I was younger.

Unfortunately I think this scenario is very common. My sympathies! I hope that as these issues are discussed more and more people will be able to understand what is really happening.

This! I’m the villain in many of my mums stories, was told I’ve always been evil…. As she was actively trying to steal money from me ☠️

Whenever I get told I’ll miss her when she’s gone regarding my mum& to make amends or I’ll regret it, I tell them I grieved the mother/daughter relationship already, there’s no love lost. I won’t regret never speaking to her again, my only regret is not cutting her off sooner. My children have met her, they dislike her as do all of my nieces and nephews.

I’ve yet to meet a more toxic, self centred, loves no one but themselves person who’s only consistent feature in life is failure.

Thanks for starting this thread OP. It's a deep, corrosive loneliness when, not only do you grow up with cruelty and complete lack of support behind closed doors, but dismissal and denial about it from others when you as much as briefly mention it in adulthood when trying to recover, including being treated as the villain of the piece for getting away to try to protect yourself enough to be functional. Hearing similar stories to mine over the last few years and finding a few core people to talk to has been the most healing thing, even just to know my reactions are normal.

@Goldenbear you may not, but it’s a sliding scale of parents who are a bit crap, but on the whole try their best but have ended up damaging their children accidentally, to parents who are absolutely terrible human beings who don’t actually care about their children at all and should have had their children taken from them but managed to slip under the radar.
It feels dismissive to say that to the people who’s parents physically assault them (not smacking for ‘discipline’ but full on attack their children/adult children when they’re drunk) steal money from them, verbally abuse them, neglect them (not feeding them, making sure they have clean clothes that fit, access to sanitary products, pulling them out of school under the guise of ‘homeschooling’ but then not doing anything remotely like homeschool- just because your too drunk in the mornings to do the school run) and things even worse.

This is true, I've one of each a lovely parent and a very troubled narcissistic one, both took suddenly and seriously Ill at the same time, whilst I wanted with every fibre of my being for the good one to survive, there was also a peace around it, I knew they had loved me and always wanted the best for me and it wasn't this horrible complex mixed emotion thing like it was with the bad one. The bad one weaponised their ill health to guilt, shame and scare me all the way. Both actually survived and it turned out the bad one had totally fabricated their terminal illness although it was a year of emotional torture before I found that out. People are kind and supportive but I still get some 'it's your mum' type rhetoric as they can't comprehend a damaging mum figure. My close circle I think would lock me away if I ever contemplated getting involved with her again.

Mine's on her last legs at the moment. I have "had the talks" with her and reached a much better understanding. My siblings are furious that I'm not running around to help. I wasn't actually sure how I'd be when this time came - I find I've already grieved, don't need to extend it.

Before I saw your reply, I was thinking of commenting something about how other people's "But it's your MUM!" cuts even sharper when your entire childhood was dedicated to understanding your parents, cutting them insane (literally) amounts of slack for being crap or downright harmful to you, their vulnerable and dependent child.

Once you've spent the first 20 years of adulthood trying to repair the damage they caused, the very last thing you need is some smug twat ordering you to understand those parents some more and cut them extra slack.

It's more that these sort of people are low in empathy have little ability to put themselves in anyone else's shoes and don't care to try.

You get the same people telling bereaved people "God works in mysterious ways" or women who have had a miscarriage "Well, you can always get pregnant again".

They just enjoy flapping their gums and making themselves feel important, and if they can somehow find a way to think that their good luck was earned and they are special and superior which is why that particular brand of bad shit hasn't happened to them, they will grasp at that straw.

And specifically with truly bad parents, if it is clear the parent was actually abusive, and someone is still minimising this, it's generally because they sympathise with the abuser because they have abusive tendencies themselves.

I literally don't know anyone with perfect parents, maybe I'm an oddity.

Agreed. I worked for a programme that helped at risk families prepare their children for school. It was hammered into us during training that all parents want the best for their children and just because some parents do things in a different way, we should not judge.

Total bullshit. It is a dangerous thing in society to believe this and allows for horrific abuse to slip under the radar. Some parents torment and hurt their children and they enjoy doing it. Not many but some.

It is tough. I woudn't describe my my parents as "toxic" but were hugely overwhelmed and underprepared for looking after the children that they ended up with. They are emotionally immature, even though were very responsible with money, employement and educational decisions for us. They are both average-above average intellengence, but had so much emotional baggage that was unresovled and ended up with us.

I am currently completely estranged, and its very hard even on a daily basis. I love my family, but their behaviour and motivations were causing me harm and now I have grown up, its very hard to interact and commuicate with them. I know the narrative from the other side will be that I am an angry and aggressive person, and I accept that.

It is incredibly difficult to explain to a majority of "intervenors" that its not all me. I get the "you will miss them when they are gone" etc.. and its so dis-ingenuous even if it is meant well. I accept that I chose to stop tolerating the harmful behaviour, which everyone else is managing in different ways for their own reasons, but it still hurts.

Even though its incredibly lonely and isolating, and a bit scary... in the way that things currently are I am actually doing much better, because I am not constantly trying to please or placate them.

I am still hopeful it will repair but I will be OK if it doesn't.

I have loving, not perfect parents. I don’t understand and won’t ever the trauma of abusive parents. I scroll past threads like that - why can’t more people do that.

I think PP is also correct that it is painful to hear someone else’s pain. It isn’t just not understanding, it is being powerless to change anything except that you can stop and listen. for me as far as my own MH allows.

Fortunately for some people they never get to experience the resulting trauma from a whole life of carrying feelings of inadequacy, desperation, frustration, anger, heartbreak and emotional scarring caused by the very people who are meant to love and care for you. Mix in the sheer confusion of also feeling undying love, empathy and concern for those same shitty parents, and the resulting personality changes and distrust towards any future love interest limiting our capacity for real wholesome happiness because all weve ever been taught is to look out for oneself as part of our survival because we are totally unlovable.
On the contrary I will never get to know what its like to have good loving parents either, but i imagine its amazingly beautiful, something my heart will forever desire but will never get.

YABU. A lot of people with toxic parents end up equally toxic and have no recognition of out of bounds behaviour and it’s impact.

No one voluntarily self-orphans unless they absolutely have to.

If adult children don't want anything to do with their parents, it will be for a good reason.

This.

Although I absolutely hated my ex-Fi's mother and I certainly wouldn't grieve her death; that gave me some insight in to how it might feel.

I used to wonder if they were right because so many people said you will miss them when they are gone.

one of my parents died last year and I wasn’t sad and I don’t miss them. I had a comment from someone I know very well who knows a lot of what I went through as a child tell me it was weird I didn’t cry at their funeral. It’s like a continuation of that judgement you describe op.

There is also the obligatory comments you get like “I’m so sorry” when people discover your parent is dead. It’s completely inappropriate to say anything but “thanks” so that’s what I say and it feels like a betrayal of myself like by accepting condolences I’m saying they were a good parent and denying my own experience. My parent wasn’t even abusive by the standards of the time- I was smacked as most children were of my generation but that wants consided abuse at all. Mainly they were cold, unavailable and disinterested in me with a clear preference for my siblings.

That said I do know of someone who used to say their mother (a family friend) was horrible and had been abusive. I couldn’t see that myself but obviously with my own experience I believed them. When their mother died they were devastated and bemoaned the loss of time they had with her. Despite spending a few years low/no contact. The mother had spent years desperately wanting a relationship with her child and been rebuffed and hurt by the rejection. So it is true that some people do regret it. Maybe the mum was abusive maybe not no one knows but them. I never said you will regret it when they are gone but I absolutely thought it.

Agree OP . Apologies for my comment. No offence intended.You are 100% right that the families my daughter deals with are probably more protected than ‘ what goes on behind closed doors’ X

No need to read past @LightDrizzle at this point 😅👏

Yeah I don’t think you understand how malicious some people are towards their children. It’s not being upset because their mum hurt their feelings that one time.

I see you. I hear you. I’m listening.