to think people with nice parents have no clue what toxic parents are like?

I’m afraid you came across a simply Sayinv tgat people are imperfect’ and a way of legitimising and that children should just accept ig because - peopld = imperfect. When you had way way way shittier than ‘imperfect’ it grates. Consider yourself lucking that you didn’t and are the position to simple say ‘peopld are imperfect’

I'm not sure where Op is getting this from. I have wonderful parents and thank my lucky stars everyday. I can see there is plenty of shitty and unbelievably cruel parenting just by turning on the news so why would I ever advise anyone against cutting off their parents?

Actually not at all you have taken it that way. It not an emotional statement, it's a factual one, I literally don't know anyone with ideal parents, stories of toxicity abound if we are using some of the anecdotal definitions on this thread. Stop assuming offence where there is none. Arsehole parents that are abusive if course exist, you'd have to be pretty sheltered to think otherwise!

Don't tell me what I'm thinking or what I'm trying to argue.

I agree OP. I am one of those naive people who is often shocked by what I read. My family is complicated and was controlling, so I left home young and always envied people who had supportive laid back parents. But we got along fine once i keep a little distance and although they have different world views than I do, they absolutely loved and adored me, particularly as a young child. Many friends say similar, relationships are tricky but everyone makes the effort. I know of people who lived with MH issues or addictions etc but I genuinely didn't know people could be unloved or emotionally abused as a child in the way I've read here. I can't imagine the underlying stress you carry with you through adult life.

I’ve got an amazing Mum, she’s never ever been anything but lovely, kind and caring. She’s even funny and great company too. I know I am so, so lucky and I know that having her has a Mum has made the rest of my life so much easier. I don’t understand why that would make me not able to understand that some parents have terrible parents. I’d never dream of being anything but compassionate to someone who was struggling with an awful parent. Surely it’s the same with lots of other difficult situations such as if someone is extremely ill or in a massively stressful job. Just because I haven’t personally experienced it doesn’t mean I can’t feel deeply sorry for those that do.

It’s not the making mistakes that’s the issue - it’s the utter denial that comes Fri toxic parents. The need to make themselves the ooor helpless victims of terrible awful ungrateful misters of ‘now adult) children.

id have been more than willing to accept even the smallest of apologies when my mother and father held me hostage on ther home demanding me to talk about my childhood. I begged not to and asked just to be friends a move on. Not good enough. I was forced to speak - as when I did, with tears streaming down my face, I was then told where the door was - with my newborn and SEN 8 year old in tow

Lacking the emotional maturity to al least own your behaviour and the impact on children who had no choice but to internalise that as some sort of failing in ther part as a child is inexcusable.

YANBU My siblings were always obnoxious, abusive (not just to me, to their peers/partners etc) and narcissistic. It's incredibly frustrating when people can't get their heads around the fact that what I have experienced is not just a bit of sibling rivalry/childhood teasing etc. I avoid mentioning that they exist as far as possible because I know that if I say that I have/had siblings that I don't want to see I am always told some version of 'blood's thicker than water', 'everyone's grown up now, don't you want to build bridges', 'you'll regret it if they die and you missed a chance to see them' (spoiler, one of them did, I don't regret my decision to cut contact).
For me, and I suspect the same probably applies to those with toxic parents, I think part of the reason that I feel so irritated by this is that for years I was told by my family that I was being difficult/causing trouble/upsetting the rest of the family if I complained about my siblings behaviour. I was encouraged to think that all families were like mine and I was just over-reacting and/or told that I was lying about how they behaved. I refuse to listen to more of the same now that I have the choice and the strength to take myself out of the situation.

If 'no one's perfect', then why were our parents so vicious and punishing to us when we weren't 'perfect'?

(And as kids! Little kids! Who it should have been their job to gently teach and guide and love unconditionally!)

I remember going round to my little friends' houses and being awed that 'their parents really seem to like them!' I didn't know what amazing thing they could have done to 'earn' that, because my parents were unpleasable...

You are not being unreasonable at all.

In honesty, I don’t understand what any kind of good family of origin relationship looks like. I simply don’t understand when people talk about their sister being their best friend or their amazing dad

Assume it works in reverse too. It’s tricky though in my friend group those with the super amazing parents of sadly lost them early. They have no comprehension when I reference any difficulties and they look a bit sad and confused when I don’t describe meeting with family of origin with joy and excitement, if I expressed concern about how Christmas might go, et cetera.

So I tend to say nothing, And so nobody gets it. But that’s just how it’s always been. Nobody getting it not really.

That’s okay, I accept and understand that

I’m in a similar boat. He worships the ground she walks on but part of me thinks it’s Stockholm syndrome plus he’s invested nearly 50 years into the marriage so there’s that. The only reason I’ve not gone NC after all the emotional fuckery is bc they moved to a location (when I was pregnant with my first child) that is a nice place to visit on holiday. Yeah I’m a hypocritical user in this regard. I realise this is morally negligible to use their place for ‘free’ holidays (we buy all the food and cook for everyone, pay for outings and they never offer to watch the kids, so it isn’t as bad as it could be) but I’ve taken the view that it’s a small compensation for the decades of emotional abuse that they will not acknowledge now bc they realise how badly they treated me.

If my kids didn’t love going so much, we wouldn’t, bc I would happily never see my mother again ever. I know we could hire a different accommodation etc but there are other reasons why this location is more beneficial for my children that I wont go into here. I bite my tongue when we’re there bc we are guests in their home and it’s a joy to see my kids really happy there, but I wish she wasn’t a narcissistic prick who has never had to take account of her actions and the damage they’ve caused.

@PrincessJasmine1 I do take your point about judging parenting of the past by today's very different standards and ideas, in a general sense. However, I knew from being a young child that something was very off and felt myself going down and down into despair and anxiety over the years, not able to leave the situation. It wasn't something I layered on retrospectively, although I guess I got more vocabulary to discuss it in more recent years. Maybe it was the way most people parented at the time, I'm not sure, and maybe people were more pressured into having children then who wouldn't have chosen to if it really felt like a choice - but the damage is real and I'm still trying to untangle it. Anyway, I guess the main point is that it's not helpful to tell people how to feel about a situation when it's different to your own experience (not saying you are doing that at all - you are not! Just realised I'm straying from the actual main point of the thread.)

Thank you, I couldn’t change it from the app. I had to go through the browser

yeah I hate it when people haven't had the exact same life experiences as I have, and they dont make an effort to accommodate the specific experiences i have had.

It's complicated... My parents were far from perfect and they made many mistakes, sometimes bad ones. But I have no doubt that they did love me in their own way. I think nowadays the criteria of what should be good parenting are really, really high and we have a tendency to apply these criteria to our parents from 30 years ago which I think is not fair. I used to be very critical of them for some time, but when I have my children now, I see that parenting is not an easy job at all.

No one knows anyone with perfect parents. That’s not the subject of this post. Less than perfect parents is in no way the same as consistently toxic parents: parents who put their own emotional needs above yours, parents who consistent refused to see you as an individual with your own unique perspective, parents who played the drama card and made everything into them every damned time, parents who demanded as a small child that you think life an adult and consider their ‘perspective’ of how much ‘pressure’ theyre under, parents who never allowed yoh to havd feelings unless those feeling were something they could hijack to look good, or like the hero, or likd the victim, parents who would play one up man shop games - if you had a horrid cold then they’d nearly died from the flu and still trudged on, parents who see theif children as some diet of extension of themselves.

You are talking of something normal. Yhd OP is highlighting the toxically abnormal that actually causes brain damage in yhd form of changed brain structure.

You are clearly one of those who has zero Idea - and how very fortunate you are.

My dad was difficult, he died when I was a teenager though and we weren't going through a good phase when he passed away. Toxic is probably too strong a word, but life was easier afterward with just my mum around so I do 'get it'.

They have zero sea.

I hate it when 'well noones perfect' comes up on these threads. My one parent is not perfect, and made mistakes, but the overall picture is of someone who actually did do their best, actually tried different parenting tactics, actually got to know us as individuals and parented accordingly, and treated us as they would hope to be treated themselves. Other parent would say they did their best and loved us, but ultimately went from 0 - 60 when we didn't do what they wanted or we didn't like the things they thought children are meant to like, or teased us endlessly without any kind words to balance out then moaned when we stopped finding it funny but kept doing it (other parent knew that good natured teasing has to be balanced out with kindness!)
I am expected to treat my parent with kindness on the basis that noones perfect, but they did not parent me on the basis that I am also not perfect, and I was not the child they thought children should be (and im talking shy and studious, I wasn't a monster)

I think many people don't realise how lucky they are for a variety of reasons, disability, wealth, privilege of birth, having decent parents, area you grow up in, victim of abuse, etc etc.

Then they make sweeping statements about how they 'worked hard to get what they have, why should their taxes support X Y or Z'

I agree. We are NC with all of DH's family and people have no idea of the heartache he went through, first with his parents (who he was NC with before he met me) and now his sister who has also caused me a lot of pain. On one occasion, a relative stepped in to tell me of for not being supportive of his sister, after she had been toxic and abusive to me and tried to weaponise her own child and my husband's child, and it was extremely damaging. It's not a choice he/we made lightly and for people to make flippant comments when they know nothing of what we've gone through is not OK.

This topic came up at work the other day and one well-meaning lad said 'people walk away too easily'

It took me 31 years to walk away

They never loved me
She stole money,stuff and my self esteem (at a time when I couldn't afford to lose a penny-they took thousands)
She tried (and in some cases succeeded) in ruining my relationships with partners and friends
They both knew I was homeless at one point and laughed about it
They tried to ruin my relationship with my children
They lied and lied about me-even to this day I hear about their lies and they don't have one original lie to tell
They couldn't be bothered to bring me up and dumped me on my amazing grandad (who I still mourn to this day)
They where spiteful and cruel
They played me off with my siblings and now I have no relationship with them or anyone else I'm related to
They rubbed my nose in how much money they have,but refused to spend a penny on me and laughed at how much I was struggling at a time when an odd tenner would have made such a difference (but could pay for my siblings to go on holiday and driving lessons/new cars)
Refused to lift a finger when I was a clueless new mum and laughed at me when I asked for advice but where fast to tell me I was doing it all wrong and she'd either ended up 'emotionally stunted' or 'she'll die if you do that' (just what you need when you've just had a baby)
Tried to control every part of my life-from the clothes I and the kids wore to where I went
Laid on guilt trips when I didn't dance to their tune
Openly hated me
Battered me more than once (in front of my dc)

But according to many,I walked away because my parents where not perfect

And I want to add,I met my now,not perfect but good enough dp long after I walked away-we have been together 10 years in May,she made sure that every other relationship I ever had lasted less than 2-coincidence?I think not-ive heard shes storing up her bile for if she ever meets him,'i'll tell him the truth about her and break them up,she'll end up with nothing' (which is the aim)

She's a cruel woman who won't be coming anywhere near him,not because I'm frightened of what lies she'll tell him,but because I don't want my gentle,loving,kind and amazing dp anywhere near her brand of evil

I was NC with my Dad and everyone would tell me how much I’d regret it when he was gone.

He died 13 years ago and I’ve never regretted it. I feel sad that things couldn’t have been different but I still know it was the right thing. He was a thoroughly nasty, toxic bully and I tried very hard, repeatedly over many years to improve our relationship with no success and at great detriment to myself. Sometimes you have to put yourself and your immediate family (ie. children) first.

Same here, lovely kind dad but toxic mother, and sadly she was the one in control. She died about 25 years ago and it's only recently that I have felt some sympathy for her, God knows why, but she must have been very unhappy to treat her lovely kind husband and three daughters that way. Anyhow yes, my DH had nice parents and doesn't really get it that some of us didn't have that.

Yes its hard. They have no idea. My mother is very difficult. Calm for now that can change. I get ah you wont have her forever alot. She 80s. Sigh.