To not shout at my child to go back to bed in the middle of the night

When I was a kid I was convinced there were dinosaurs on the landing - thanks Jurassic Park - and an evil gnome in the toilet. It meant that when I woke up needing a wee I was terrified (I mean TERRIFIED) to go to the loo. I used to hide under the covers like your son until I was desperate - sometimes I'd manage to convince myself to go to the loo and sometimes I'd wet the bed. If I wet the bed, my mum would be very angry, but she'd also be angry if I woke her up in the night upset. So I was both scared of the imaginary monsters and also scared of upsetting my mum. My mum wasn't as bad as your partner was being, what he's doing is completely awful!

Suffice to say I had terrible insomnia until my early 20's and I think I've got poor attachment to my mum (although I do love her and she's been nice in other ways, she just had low empathy in general when I was a kid, and still does now!).

I do feel sorry for your son. He should not be shouting at your son he will make him more anxious. All my 4 didn't sleep very well. We put a cot mattress on the floor next to our bed they just came in and went straight to sleep. It was just separation anxiety. They all grow out of it in the end. We did anything so we could get a good night's sleep.

I would be getting DP to sleep on the sofa and letting 6 year old crawl in for a cuddle and keeping him there!

I empathise completely. My son has ASD and ADHD which were diagnosed at 6, he’s now 8. His sleep was awful for a long time but we have managed to get his sleep settled the vast majority of the time, but as soon as something upsets him his sleep is the first thing to go wrong (it’s actually usually the thing that alerts us to the fact he’s struggling).

Sleep issues go with both ADHD and ASD and you need to find methods that work for a particular child, yelling at them to go back to bed is rarely an effective strategy. You need to sort out the underlying issues. Our kids will come to us because we are their safe space and that’s the way I want it to be. I don’t want my kids to be struggling and not want to tell us/come to us. I don’t want them crying on their own because they think we won’t help. Do we get frustrated at getting woken up in the night, yes; can the kids help it, no.

Things that have helped; we got him a star projector light from Amazon that he uses as a nightlight. It’s seems to be low enough light to not disrupt melatonin productions but enough to make him feel safe. We also got him a weighted blanket (OHS have really good ones at a good price).

On the diagnosis front, be careful if going private that the NHS will accept the diagnosis and prescribe meds (if you decide to go that way), I know a few people who have had a problem in that area.

My 6yo doesn’t have ADHD and does this every night! He comes in as he’s scared and wants a cuddle. I’ve given up putting him back so I let him sleep with my DH and I sleep in his bed! It’s annoying, uncomfortable and disruptive but he’s 6 and he won’t do it forever.
How did you leave him crying for that long without going in to him? I couldn’t leave my son scared for two minutes. Yes it’s annoying but that’s just cruel! Your partner is a dick.

You are right. He is DEAD wrong. Even if you had made a joint decision to support your son sleeping more independently, your partner's behaviour is unacceptably cruel.

But you can't 'train' someone out of fear, so imo you have no alternative other than what you are doing. Yes, it sucks. Broken sleep sucks. But it's both of your jobs to create a safe environment for your son to sleep in and your other half is failing. I would be FURIOUS.

Oh OP, sorry that you are up against this. I think you’re doing the right thing by following your instinct to comfort your son. He is still only a child after all and being scared of the dark is a real concern for one so small. If your partner is unhappy with getting woken up, could you cosleep with your son in his room then your son will be reassured and your partner can have an uninterrupted night’s sleep?

I bet your son would sudddenly become more confident and less anxious if you threw that abusive piece of shit out of your house.

Gently, gently, patience, your partner needs training , yes it's a bug bear but one like you say will get son back to sleep quicker , have you tried a night light or two to give him security as he has adhd , sorry if that's wrong .Maybe men are no so understanding as ladies , anything for peace gently gently works , all the best

I think you’re missing the fact this chikd is likely ND/SN and will need a different approach than an NT child.

The fact he doesn’t want to be on his own during the day too tells me the issue is much deeper than just a night time issue where he has been pandered to.

I’m also 😲😲 at the idea that it’s just the OP saving money for a private consultation/diagnosis and not BOTH OF THEM seeing he is the father.
Again it points towards issues in the relationship that go much deeper than simple polarisation ‘to compensate’ for the mum ‘being too soft’.

I know you say it’s sort of your line of work. I’d hope you would take into account all those ‘other’ circumstances into account before giving advice telling the OP she is doing it wrong

(And yes the whole your dh is right too he is just not going on about it right is screaming to me ‘OP you’re too soft. Stop pandering to him’. To someone who is NOT that sure of herself, that’s why she is on MN asking for opinions)

Its not borderline abusive, its abusive. Agree that you are underreacting to this.

Im guessing this isnt the only manifestation of his abusive behaviour either.

I would have ripped him a new arsehole the first time it happened and made it clear if he ever dared stop me from going to my child again his shit would be out on the front lawn with immediate effect.

LTB

My son had similar, lots of nightmares and not wanting to be alone day or night. We got him some play therapy to help him work through his feelings and fears and it really worked for him. All they ever seemed to do is play or draw but he really gained confidence to do things that scared him. I had shouty parents and it just stopped me telling them things.

You are not too soft in anyway!! You are being a loving caring mum. Your husband is being absolutely horrible. Imagine waking up, and feeling vulnerable, and wanting some reassurance and feeling too scared to seek it, and being shoved out of the room to be alone and cry? It’s horrible. I feel sorry for your son and I would stand firm and continue to put him first. X

"he shouts at him to get back to bed. pushes him back into his room. slams our door shut etc etc"

It's not borderline abusive OP. It IS abusive.

Yes to all of this!!

Also, I forgot about this but we used to have a “monster spray” 😂❤️

It was actually lavender so it had a calming effect too. We used it probably up to the age of around 10 (SEN DC).

Would leaving a monster spray (or whatever other name you want to call it would work?!) in his room help? He could spray it round himself if he wakes up and it might help him to self-settle?

We also used to have a thing called the “mummy kiss” - I’d kiss the palm of their hand and then wrap their fingers round it. If they were feeling sad or missed me, they’d have a “mummy kiss” in their hand that was always with them. It was very special and only need to be refreshed once a day 😊

I reckon move into your son's room, everyone will get more sleep

Shouting at a child, pushing them, slamming doors and forcing them to be in an environment where they are scared is not borderline abuse, it is abuse. How does your partner’s behaviour meet your child’s needs? Or is this really about him struggling to regulate himself when his sleep is disrupted? How does he think making an already fearful and nervous child even more scared will result in him feeling secure and safe enough to be alone in the dark?

Whereas it is true what you are saying there are ways of doing so that aren’t abusive

because @Gagamama2 it is abusive to push slam etc not borderline

So first off, I think we’ve got the same child! Only mine is a bit older now and lots better.

I think what’s happening is a lot of what I see in clinical work as well. Parents become more and more polarised as one gets harder to compensate for the other being softer and it becomes hard to meet in the middle (therefore divide and conquer happens). You’re both right (though husband is going about it wrong). You’re right he needs comfort and he’s right that he’s safe and can do this by himself. You need to agree a plan where you are working together. Think of the anxiety as external - it’s (not your son) bossing you all about and positioning you in ways that aren’t helpful and allow it to grow.

even though I work in the field I found the book breaking free of child anxiety and ocd by Eli lebowitz a really good guide and gave me a plan to work to. It’s high on compassion but your son also needs to start to develop some confidence in managing this stuff too or you’re on a tricky slope that’s hard to stop sliding down. You need both compassion (I can see this is hard) and confidence (but you’ve got this). We hit the skids with my autistic kid around times of big change and this term is ALWAYS brutal. Mines had me up three times this week. But we stick to the principles of offering compassion but also ‘we’ve been here before - you’re safe and you can do this’ and we soon get back on track. It’s not sustainable long term and you deserve to sleep too. Unfortunately offering lots of reassurance becomes a safety behaviour in itself and doesn’t help in the long run. Again, your husbands way is also not helpful and will exacerbate it, but you need to be a team to fight this - including your son xx

You partner is being horrendous and that is NOT how you deal with this.

I have a DS with asd/adhd/dcd/spd and he has ALWAYS been scared of the dark. He's nearly 19 and STILL comes into my room on a bad night for comfort, i would never turn him away.

He has a night light.. its one of those kids star projectors, he has ambient music on (its a chillwave playlist) and a chosen plush toy that makes him feel safer. He also takes prescription melatonin.

Sometimes not all that work, he can't sleep, is too hot/too cold/feels ill, something scared him and he will come down to my room, ask for a hug, get in with me for 10 mins and then i will take him back to bed, do whatever he needs to feel safe/comfortable and tuck him back in.

Shouting at them will not fix fear of the dark, all it will do is give them fear of you. They need to be made to feel safe and loved and reassured.

Not sleeping isn't great, as i said, he is 18, i haven't slept through since he was born because nor has he, you get used to it. My ExH treated him much like yours does, i left when he was 11, and i can honestly say, he sleeps better now, knowing he isn't going to be manhandled and yelled at when he is scared.

There's more going on with your son's dad. He's in a bad place and can't deal with this.

I've been in a situation due to very ill health and being a lone parent where I felt night time waking would just finish me off. I know in the worst moments, I'd have the capacity to lose it after a while. ( My teen is ND).

I'd guess your partner is struggling with ' stuff', with having an ND child possibly. With the drudgery of life? Where else is this showing up and is it worth it or can anything change here? I don't mean you have to change btw.

I don't agree with cry it out because someone else is demanding it here and they're not coming from an educated place.

Eventually, it will happen and he'll be ok. Until then, you're confident providing the support he needs. So your partner does need to fuck off on that. He's not the one getting up. You are.

As a compromise for everyone, I'd be looking at every possible way to help night time comfort and confidence. Night lights, music, teddy that has a heartbeat and sleep sounds, a pull out bed in their room for you in emergencies when he won't go back to sleep. Things he can do to feel more comfortable. Ask him what he thinks. ( Your son not husband).

I'd tell husband this won't last forever and he needs to stop, shut up and get ear plugs. You are handling it.

Your ds is being abused and you are enabling it..
Tell him he can stay away 7 nights a week.

OP, I know that your DS isn’t a baby but you referenced the technique of crying it out - that’s a really out of date school of thought and widely believed to make things worse, potentially even causing some longer term issues. Example: www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/moral-landscapes/201112/dangers-of-crying-it-out/amp

So you don’t need to let your older child cry it out. Lots of children go through a phase of struggling in the night, especially if they are SEN. You aren’t being “soft” (whatever that means). Giving your scared child reassurance and getting them settled back in bed is perfect. This won’t go on forever.

Presumably though your child displays additional needs in other areas during the day? How is your DH with that? Is he equally impatient or is it just at night? Parenting a ND child isn’t always easy and shouting inevitably makes things much harder.

For reference, I’m autistic/ADHD and have two autistic DC.

There is a difference between mollycoddling a spoilt child and supporting a child that is genuinely anxious.

Your husband is disgusting. I would have booted him out if he had ever emotionally abused one of my children in that nasty manner.

This isn’t a child being a chancer hoping to get into mum and dad’s bed or be given a treat it’s a nervous little boy with genuine terrors which are worse at night.

He needs comfort, reassurance and should never ever be made to feel he’s being naughty or is a nuisance.

In your situation I would tell your husband to fuck off to a spare room and bring your little boy into bed with you.

You’re 100% right OP, who actually cares if it’s ‘normal’ or not, what does that even mean?

He’s a small child, he wants reassurance from his parents at night that he is safe and he should get it. 20 minutes is not excessive, and I think with a gentle approach he will over come it…