Page 5 | Friends really annoying trait!

Gallivanterer · 2025-07-14T06:25:04+00:00

Ive been friends with her for over a decade now and I love her. We're very close. But shes got this one really irritating trait, and I really want to either find a way of bringing it up with her or learning ways of dealing with it. The reason its coming to a head is we are planning a holiday together next year (first time we've been away together). I cant even summarise this character trait as its so nebulous but let me give you some examples. - Going to an island for our holiday and I mentioned as well as sea and cultural stuff there would be opportunities to split up and eg could go on some hikes, head to the mountains, etc. She did me a 2 min VM in which she basically reiterated "I mean for me, going here is about the sea, its going to be sea focused for me" over and over again. I was thinking... Yes... I get that, hence why we are going to an island 😅 - Again for the trip, we both do a lot of trusted housesitters, so I suggested nearer the time we could do a mix of accommodation options including trusted housesitters and she said "nope. It'll be a hassle, I want this to be about relaxation". - I spent years suggesting a particular career change for her that was really in line with her skills and profile, she would always do these really lengthy VMs explaining why my idea was a bad one. Until 6 months ago when she suddenly had this epiphany that this would be a great option for her. There are countless other examples but I dont want to bore you! I cant put my finger on it, its not about what shes saying its about her tone: she can have a very kind of categoric/dismissive tone on subjects i think should just be relaxed conversations where we're batting ideas back and forth. Its almost like a kind of know it all vibe in which shes kind of dismissing/shutting down debate and I find it really grating. Ive been meaning to try and find a way of handling this or talking to her about it, but going on holiday has made me think I really need to do it now as we are right at the start of planning so id like to nip it in the bud! Has anyone got experience with this kind of trait?

gottalottodo · 14/07/2025 08:31

Maybe she is just pissed off with all your “suggestions”

Macaroni46 · 14/07/2025 08:30

What’s a VM?

AprilShowers25 · 14/07/2025 08:28

To the hike thing I would reply saying sorry I meant would you mind if I went on the odd hike while you do your own thing. I think the accommodation thing is totally reasonable from her end. She is probably getting frustrated as she thinks she has made it clear that she wants a relaxing holiday and you keep suggesting things that are stressing her out.

treesandsun · 14/07/2025 08:27

Don't go on holiday with her It sounds like it'll be the end of the friendship.

Iamthemoom · 14/07/2025 08:27

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 07:58

Yes thats exactly it. Because of how her mum was (and still is) with her, she jumps into this defensive mode and it makes simple conversations a bit of a chore.
In a normal world (according to me!) you would just be like "hiking sounds good, im going to stick to the beaches!". Not launch into a massive defence of your decision to go to the beach!

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Why are you going on holiday with someone when you find simple conversations with them ‘a bit of a chore’? Maybe you just aren’t compatible enough to go on holiday together.

Original poster

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 08:22

TomatoWildFlowers · 14/07/2025 08:18

If you want to address it directly, don't take an individual example because it sounds petty. Say something more like

Kate, You've said before that your mum is and always has been hyper critical of you. I've noticed how much of an impact this has had on you. When we talk, you have a tendency to see criticism where it isn't meant, or that you feel the need to defend your choices. I love you. I'm not your mum and I'm not criticising or judging you. You don't need to justify anything to me.

She how that goes down, then in the future you could try following up when she launches into defensive mode about a specific thing with a quick "Kate, it's ok I'm not your mum"

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This is great!!! I am saving it to my notes. Im going to try this.

OP posts:

Tennislives · 14/07/2025 08:20

Definitely stop listening to her VM's, screw that.
The holiday will likely kill the friendship dead as you will stop wanting to engage at all.
If you insist on going, bring reading material and make plans to be on your own for part of every day.
When someone irritates you like that you can't unsee it, such is the tedium.

It is her way of communication and it is unlikely to change.
Don't say anything as she won't hear it.

However, if she starts on you, you could hold up your hand and say "can this not be a lecture please!".

I think you need to stop giving her airtime.

Start with no longer listening to her VMs.

Doggymummar · 14/07/2025 08:20

Just don't listen to the voice messages. My friend sends them, I never listen. Just pop a note back saying what's up it's much harder to type a long spiel. There might be a three minute voice note that translates to are you free Saturday for lunch when you get to the crux of it.

TomatoWildFlowers · 14/07/2025 08:18

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 08:07

Thanks for the recommendation!

So do you think it would be a bad idea to address it directly then? I guess its hard to do because it is so nebulous. Like the bike/FB thing for example. What could I have said in response to that, that would be gentle but also make the point?

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If you want to address it directly, don't take an individual example because it sounds petty. Say something more like

Kate, You've said before that your mum is and always has been hyper critical of you. I've noticed how much of an impact this has had on you. When we talk, you have a tendency to see criticism where it isn't meant, or that you feel the need to defend your choices. I love you. I'm not your mum and I'm not criticising or judging you. You don't need to justify anything to me.

She how that goes down, then in the future you could try following up when she launches into defensive mode about a specific thing with a quick "Kate, it's ok I'm not your mum"

Original poster

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 08:17

Noshadelamp · 14/07/2025 08:11

The more examples you're giving the more she sounds like my DH. And yes it's exhausting.
For my DH it's a combination of a hyper critical parent always putting him down, and I believe undiagnosed autism.
He is a self confessed pendant, and gets anxious easily if the facts are not correct in any way.

He does a lot of external processing, which I believe your friend is doing with the long vns.

Everything is up for discussion, and his goal seems to be to ensure "correctness" and show he knows, he's not stupid, as if anything I've said is taken as a criticism.

It's so exhausting and taken me years to realise and recognise.

I believe with my DH the underlying drive is anxiety, he can't cope with change which includes potential change to how he's perceived.

Edited

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Interesting. Talking about it on MN is helping me drill down to the nub of the issue.
Its like she positions herself as thr authority.... On EVERYTHING. So for example with the FB bike thing, shes positioning herself as the authority kn human behaviour (the woman actually did come knocking!).
I think she sees herself as "the pragmatic one" so there's often this undertone of "oh honey, let me tell you how things work".

I sound like i really dislike her - I dont! She's a great, funny, supportive friend. I just wish she could lose the attitude sometimes. Its like she cant do brainstorming, to her any kind of collaboration is basically an opportunity to show authority

OP posts:

rookiemere · 14/07/2025 08:14

Ok how about a different tack. Just respond “You could be right” to everything she says. The issue here is neither of you are wrong, you just do things differently. So maybe just try acknowledging her in a slightly brush off way, if she sees what you are doing and calls you out “Friend, it’s exhausting debating everything I do. We see the world differently so I am just acknowledging that there are two different ways of viewing things.”

Noshadelamp · 14/07/2025 08:11

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 07:55

She has often talked about how growing up her mum was hyper critical. The best way i can describe it is that she often seems to take suggestions like theyre challenges. Like every idea or opinion is somehow her being asked to defend a stance when thats absolutely not what's happening.
Last week I was selling my bike, and i was in this lengthy back and forth with a woman on FB who kept changing the date and time she wanted to come around (she changed it 4 times). After the fourth time I didn't respond to her new suggestion as I had her down as a time waster.
My friend asked whether I'd sold the bike so I told her about the woman and said "anyway, she has my address so I'll leave her to it, she might just come knocking".
Friend then launched into a really patronising missive along the lines of "who would do that? 😆 Nobody is just going to randomly come around to your house without you saying okay? 🤣"

Its the same kind of thing. Its so fucking annoying!

The more examples you're giving the more she sounds like my DH. And yes it's exhausting.
For my DH it's a combination of a hyper critical parent always putting him down, and I believe undiagnosed autism.
He is a self confessed pendant, and gets anxious easily if the facts are not correct in any way.

He does a lot of external processing, which I believe your friend is doing with the long vns.

Everything is up for discussion, and his goal seems to be to ensure "correctness" and show he knows, he's not stupid, as if anything I've said is taken as a criticism.

It's so exhausting and taken me years to realise and recognise.

I believe with my DH the underlying drive is anxiety, he can't cope with change which includes potential change to how he's perceived.

StrawberrySquash · 14/07/2025 08:10

Or not even the 'because xyz'. Just no.

StrawberrySquash · 14/07/2025 08:10

I do have some sympathy. I have a couple of friends who will just say 'Well, no because xyz' about stuff that isn't black and white like that. Or say we've planned a trip, will just say we have to take x train and won't explain if you ask you are just expected to follow along. And then are occasionally wrong but won't listen! Just won't engage. It's like a sort of grey rock with speaking.

Original poster

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 08:07

rookiemere · 14/07/2025 08:05

Well that’s going to be a fun holiday !
It sounds like you both rub each other up the wrong way with your current dynamics.
I don’t think saying something directly addressing the behaviour is going to do any good. As you say, it’s a bit of a nebulous complaint and would be hard for her to act on in the moment. So few things that may help - could you try humour when she goes all pedantic on you, make a joke about her being a mermaid or something if she drones on about the sea. Rubbish example but it’s really about prompting her to think about what she is saying.
Another thought is tell her you are no longer listening to voice notes, and get her to repeat whatever it is she said. It’s easy to rant with no response. Harder in a conversation.
I would suggest both of you read Let Them by Mel Robbins, it may help you to understand why you feel obligated to offer advice and why she doesn’t take it.

But really if you value this friendship, I would suggest not going on this trip, or at least breaking it into solo segments. It’s really hard work spending 24/7 with one other person and if there are already cracks in the relationship, it’s going to kill your friendship dead.

Thanks for the recommendation!

So do you think it would be a bad idea to address it directly then? I guess its hard to do because it is so nebulous. Like the bike/FB thing for example. What could I have said in response to that, that would be gentle but also make the point?

OP posts:

rookiemere · 14/07/2025 08:05

Well that’s going to be a fun holiday !
It sounds like you both rub each other up the wrong way with your current dynamics.
I don’t think saying something directly addressing the behaviour is going to do any good. As you say, it’s a bit of a nebulous complaint and would be hard for her to act on in the moment. So few things that may help - could you try humour when she goes all pedantic on you, make a joke about her being a mermaid or something if she drones on about the sea. Rubbish example but it’s really about prompting her to think about what she is saying.
Another thought is tell her you are no longer listening to voice notes, and get her to repeat whatever it is she said. It’s easy to rant with no response. Harder in a conversation.
I would suggest both of you read Let Them by Mel Robbins, it may help you to understand why you feel obligated to offer advice and why she doesn’t take it.

But really if you value this friendship, I would suggest not going on this trip, or at least breaking it into solo segments. It’s really hard work spending 24/7 with one other person and if there are already cracks in the relationship, it’s going to kill your friendship dead.

DappledThings · 14/07/2025 08:03

This holiday is a terrible idea. You are going to end up so annoyed and hurt by each other during ever interaction about deciding where to go for dinner and even how and when to get to the airport in the first place that your friendship will be irretrievably broken.

Original poster

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 08:02

Tennislives · 14/07/2025 07:59

Why on earth are you going on holiday with her?
She's a deeply annoying person.
I actually know someone like that, not a friend of any sort.
Whatever point someone makes to her about anything, on any subject, she has an opposite point of few. Not aggressive in any way, just an opposing view point.
She has a mildly lecturing, superior wisdom, type of tone, complete pain in the arse stuff.

I avoid her like the plague.
The holiday is a huge mistake.

Thats exactly it! There has to be a counter argument to EVERYTHING!!!!

You might show her a pair of shoes youre thinking of buying and it will turn into a big thing about how and why shes not wearing heels anymore.
She might ask for your opinion on a dress, you give it, and then she'll go on a vaguely condescending talk about how thats not a good idea for her.

Its like why does everything have to be a big debate about your fundamental essence as a person?

OP posts:

TomatoWildFlowers · 14/07/2025 07:59

She has often talked about how growing up her mum was hyper critical

Ahh, that's why then. You are her mum in the transference.
There's absolutely nothing you can do about it. She could have therapy if she wanted to. But she can't help it right now.

Tennislives · 14/07/2025 07:59

Why on earth are you going on holiday with her?
She's a deeply annoying person.
I actually know someone like that, not a friend of any sort.
Whatever point someone makes to her about anything, on any subject, she has an opposite point of few. Not aggressive in any way, just an opposing view point.
She has a mildly lecturing, superior wisdom, type of tone, complete pain in the arse stuff.

I avoid her like the plague.
The holiday is a huge mistake.

Original poster

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 07:58

TomatoWildFlowers · 14/07/2025 07:55

Oh ok, so she's seeing criticism when it's not there and unnecessarily defending her choices.
If you say you're going hiking on a day you're not together, and she'd prefer to paddle in the sea, she's hearing a judgement of her choice from you (that isn't there?). Is she insecure? Does she compare herself with you? Does she think you're more successful? Or think she's lazier than you?

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Yes thats exactly it. Because of how her mum was (and still is) with her, she jumps into this defensive mode and it makes simple conversations a bit of a chore.
In a normal world (according to me!) you would just be like "hiking sounds good, im going to stick to the beaches!". Not launch into a massive defence of your decision to go to the beach!

OP posts:

TomatoWildFlowers · 14/07/2025 07:55

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 07:48

I appreciate what youre saying, but im not dictating anything! Its a pattern with us. Every single small thing she has to pick up on and make some kind of counter point. Like me mentioning i would maybe go and do some mountain hikes on days we split up -> in response I get a long message about how this is all about the sea and you won't catch her venturing inland. I mean, okay? I never said YOU should go to the mountains? 😅 Its exhausting! She can never just be like "sounds good" or whatever - even when things dont concern her directly its like she has to give her opinion or make a value judgment on them

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Oh ok, so she's seeing criticism when it's not there and unnecessarily defending her choices.
If you say you're going hiking on a day you're not together, and she'd prefer to paddle in the sea, she's hearing a judgement of her choice from you (that isn't there?). Is she insecure? Does she compare herself with you? Does she think you're more successful? Or think she's lazier than you?

Original poster

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 07:55

She has often talked about how growing up her mum was hyper critical. The best way i can describe it is that she often seems to take suggestions like theyre challenges. Like every idea or opinion is somehow her being asked to defend a stance when thats absolutely not what's happening.
Last week I was selling my bike, and i was in this lengthy back and forth with a woman on FB who kept changing the date and time she wanted to come around (she changed it 4 times). After the fourth time I didn't respond to her new suggestion as I had her down as a time waster.
My friend asked whether I'd sold the bike so I told her about the woman and said "anyway, she has my address so I'll leave her to it, she might just come knocking".
Friend then launched into a really patronising missive along the lines of "who would do that? 😆 Nobody is just going to randomly come around to your house without you saying okay? 🤣"

Its the same kind of thing. Its so fucking annoying!

OP posts:

ToKittyornottoKitty · 14/07/2025 07:52

Gallivanterer · 14/07/2025 07:48

I appreciate what youre saying, but im not dictating anything! Its a pattern with us. Every single small thing she has to pick up on and make some kind of counter point. Like me mentioning i would maybe go and do some mountain hikes on days we split up -> in response I get a long message about how this is all about the sea and you won't catch her venturing inland. I mean, okay? I never said YOU should go to the mountains? 😅 Its exhausting! She can never just be like "sounds good" or whatever - even when things dont concern her directly its like she has to give her opinion or make a value judgment on them

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So she’s actually having discussions with you and you just want her to shut up and say ‘sounds good’. So you can explain you want to see mountains but she can’t explain she wants to see the sea…. The updates paint you as more annoying than her

Treesarenotforeating · 14/07/2025 07:52

I don’t think this holiday is going to work your just going to annoy each other