Friends really annoying trait!

OP, I get it. My sister is like this. Her identity is also based on being very clever and capable. The problem with my sister is that she is neither. She has pockets of expertise and ability - but she positions herself as the worlds greatest expert. And in particular with me, she has to feel cleverer than me (ie. me getting accepted to a prestigious university while she went to the local FE college and then the open university. Does where we went matter? Not in the slightest, who would even know if we did not tell them? But she went on and on and on about it. Why her degree was better than mine). Since then she has to feel she has proved herself as better than me, more knowledgeable, etc etc. Its exhausting. Frustrating. And occasionally hilarious because she will say such stupid things to get one up - she once insisted vanilla flavouring was made from bananas when I made a comment about buying a vanilla pod. This does not sound like external processing - its one upmanship. You feel the difference when it is done to you. You can try to discuss it directly with her if she would be open. If not, take my tip - just say, oh, thats interesting, and move on.

Again for the trip, we both do a lot of trusted housesitters, so I suggested nearer the time we could do a mix of accommodation options including trusted housesitters and she said "nope. It'll be a hassle, I want this to be about relaxation".

I think I would rather just plonk myself down in one place with a pool rather than keep packing up to house sit someone else's house every few days, unless I was doing a two centre holiday or a road trip.

I have never, and would never, describe myself as “very refreshing” (or telling it like it is), if that’s what you’re insinuating. I said I find speaking to my colleague is refreshing, if anything they are the “refreshing” person, not me.

And you’ve not been on MN long if you think it’s normal for someone to turn up at your house unannounced. It would take me 30 seconds to find hundreds of posts of people who won’t open the door if they don’t expect someone to be knocking on the door. There is no object test of what is weird and what isn’t, so that is just an opinion whenever it’s stated. Seemingly both mine and your friend’s opinion.

You’re coming across as increasingly unpleasant, so I’m inclined to say your friend is the least annoying person in the OP.

I think it’s a voice mail message left on a phone. I must admit I need to update my technology knowledge because I thought the friend was leaving video montages 😂.

She sounds like a friend of mine who can be quite exhausting to be around ( we live very far apart which I think is the reason we are still friends). For example another child was mean to her son and I said I was sorry to hear that and that her son was a lovely boy who would never hurt anyone and she snapped at me that she knows her own son.

If it annoys you, just say ok then if she launches into a big explanation. And stop giving unsolicited advice because that is also annoying.

I agree.

I can see this being your first and last holiday together!

It's really hard to tell what's going on with her. Could be loads of different things.

PDA

Low self esteem/fearfully protecting her autonomy (maybe a childhood hangup).

Selfish/bossy/dictatorial personality (you suggest things, she responds in a "my way or the highway " tone), though I doubt this is actually the issue or surely you wouldn't be friends.

Lacking in emotional intelligence/responding before considering other points of view. (My husband is like this because he assumes what is obviously preferable to him is also preferable to everyone; he does respond positively when called out though, he just doesn't think before opening his gob. )

Not able to process things internally, having to voice everything to an audience who aren't really meant to respond, just be a sounding board. (I'm a bit like that although I mainly talk to myself under my breath.)

Combination of any of those?

I think in the most part you can just ignore/shut down. So "I fancy hiking in the mountains alone". "Oh no I'm only interested in the beach". "That's great, I wasn't suggesting you come with me". I do think you are right to raise it though as some people might get offended at "being left alone " so you are managing expectations.

I do think she was a bit bossy about the accommodation - you are paying too! You only made suggestions and she pretty much said no we'll do what I want. I think in that scenario I would say "my budget for accommodation is £x, happy for you to look for options within that".

At first I was thinking she’s just responding to you / having a conversation.

But your further posts paint her as at perhaps at best contradictory / at worst argumentative. I think everyone’s known someone like that - and it is very annoying, but why be best friends with her for so long? It sounds as though you clash.

As you say, this is her fundamental essence, and I’m afraid you won’t change that.

I’d suggest if you do still go on holiday together then a lot of solo time might be the best thing!

Your replies are getting pretty snippy and rude now, OP. Lots of people have given some thoughtful replies. You don't seem to have reflected much on them. I guess you'll go on holiday and get wound up and maybe it'll blow up and all be her fault because of her traits, not two people being not compatible for a holiday.

tbh I see this way of communicating a lot in TV shows and it really irritates me.

eg: Character who has seen a monster: 'Look, I saw a monster in the basement last week so I really don't think it's a good idea for you to go down there alone'

Character with counterargument (eg your mate): 'A monster, don't be silly, even though you are my mate and you are a monster hunter, I'm actually going to go down there for no good reason'.

OR even more annoying: Character - 'wait, listen to me, I think Chuck is really ill and has been infected by a poisoned spider bite'.
Your mate: No, that can't be right, there are no spiders in the jungle, even though you are a doctor and an explorer. I think Chuck looks just fine'
(Spoiler - Chuck dies).

Once you see it you can't unsee it and it's really bloody irritating.

So yeah, I say bin the holiday with your 'no but' pal.

I think you should follow the advice above on how to approach it in the first instance - I've noticed X but I do think you need to be more specific about what it is and how it affects you. Mention the town thing - you tried to offer advice and you feel like she switched to arguing black was white just because you agreed with her. Ask her if she has any suggestions on how she'd like you to engage with her - do suggestions frustrate her or make her anxious? Should you just empathise with her? Talking this through might help her understand what is happening in her that makes her behave like this and hopefully do it less. I do think you need to be clear as otherwise you will just piss her off. It sounds to me like she is herself being a bit hypercritical as well as defensive.

I’m more like your friend in this scenario and can’t really see what your issue is. Why are you telling her things if you don’t want her view?

I know I come across as defensive sometimes, but really I’m just explaining my thought process so we don’t go over things I’ve already considered and dismissed. I have a colleague who is very like me in this way and it’s very refreshing as we will often ring each other just to talk through a thought process (externally processing like someone else has said).

Why is she wrong to be clear she doesn’t want to go hiking (and why would she say sounds good, it doesn’t - it sounds horrendous to me). She obviously has previous reasons for not doing the career change, why was she wrong to tell you those reasons (presumably to stop you trying for years to convince her when she already had good reason for saying no or not now).

It is weird for someone just to turn up unannounced to buy a bike, why is it odd for her to comment on this?

But do not do the armchair psychologist thing and tell her you know it’s because of her mum and she doesn’t have to do it.

I do it because a lot of my identity is built around being clever and I also appreciate efficiency - so i want you to understand what I’ve already thought of to save rehashing, and a bit to prove I’ve thought of it before you raise it. If one of my friends psychoanalysed this and asked me to fundamentally change my personality and how I operate in the world, I’d probably cease to be friend with them.

How can you address it though? It's just her entire personality really isn't it?
You can't say you need a full overhaul of your attitude, beliefs and ways of communicating.

I do think it's odd to suggest a career for another person for ages. Then be annoyed they finally took your (initially clearly unwanted) advice.

Honestly just accept that you've probably both got foibles and you know what she's like. Either stay close friends or distance yourself. But I don't think you can change other people.

Oh dear, this is tricky. IMO it comes down to whether or not you want to bring up the issue and make things potentially uncomfortable, considering how defensive she’ll be about it.

DD is the same. She wasn’t, but after a really bad bullying spell when starting high school, she became hyper defensive and hyper independent (which also makes her refuse counselling because she knows best). If she asks me for my opinion about something, she’ll debate it until my opinion matches hers. It can be mundane or serious, it will happen.

It made me stop enjoying outings with her, which is something I’m really distressed about because I don’t know how to tell her. I’m fairly easy going and I don’t want to be stressed or with someone on a permanent rant while on holidays or doing something nice.

But my DD is, well, my DD. I wouldn’t have this amount of goodwill and patience with anyone else.

Ye and this op is where you may be carrying some baggage - she thinks she is being criticised/ has to defend herself, do you think you have to come up with a solution? The “oh that sounds tough what are you going to do “ line is absolutely marvellous I find (I’ve a tendency to do this).

Google narcissists…there are many different variations on the same beast! Trust me, once you know what to spot, it becomes very clear…I know because I have family members/friends who are, friends who married one and now no longer together…they’re fascinating creatures but the way their mind works is very interesting and the traits and behaviour are quite manipulative but once you know, you know…Dr Ramani I think is her name of YouTube channel, very enlightening…

Interrupt early in … are you looking for support or suggestions?
or
are you venting?

if she asks why

you say, I’m asking so I know what support you are looking for from me - so I know if you want suggestions, or a friendly ear to complain to.

then you know what she wants.

I agree with this.

The examples in the OP, it’s not unreasonable to want a relaxing holiday and not to hop around house sitting but the OP has taken this as proof of her friend being wildly unreasonable!

Ditto with the example of the career choice - there could be lots of reasons why it wasn’t right until now. Rather than thinking “I made a great call all those years ago with my suggestion!” OP is strangely affronted that her friend is only considering the option now.

Those two examples reflect poorly on OP, not her friend.

And the very vigorous defence of exactly why she is definitely right and the friend is completely wrong, with no reflection at all on her own behaviour…..I don’t think things are as one-sided as OP would have us believe.

This holiday will be a disaster.

ND. Could she be? Running through options, long convoluted conversations, like a chaotic mind... ADHD? Anything else that might suggest this? I might be grabbing at straws of course!?

This , absolutely! Sounds spot on