....to think women find having babies harder now?

Oh I completely agree - one of the things that has helped me whilst in the grips of PND was thinking of random historical figures and reminding myself that they almost certainly didn’t go to baby sensory. Pretty certain nobody was making sure Julius Caesar was eating the right kind of bread or Catherine the Great got enough tummy time.

I see many threads on here about women wanting to ban visitors (even their own mother) until baby is several weeks old and have their baby bubble alone.

Then they find it doesnt work so well.

I think that new guidelines about care of babies makes it harder for new mothers.

It seems you have to be with your baby every second of the day to the extent that some mothers on here have difficulty getting showered.

My DC would nap in a cot upstairs during the day or in a pram/pushchair depending on circumstances. This meant that I was left free to sort household tasks etc or have a rest myself. Similarly in the evening, they were upstairs asleep while DH and I remained downstairs

My grandma had 8 kids, without thought.

She got them onto a bottle ASAP and passed each baby over to one of the older kids to look after. She did a bit of part time work. Her tradesman husband earned enough to cover their modest expenses. All the kids wore hand-me-downs and entertained themselves. Her social network was all around her and happy to help out - and any neighbour with a pulse was deemed good enough to watch the kids.

There was no judgement from anyone, and - without social media - no exposure to what she was missing out on.

Women did stay in hospital for longer in the past. My mother, who had four of us in the 1960s, said that for a first birth you stayed in for 10 days and for subsequent babies it was a week. But before the 60s, most women would have had their babies at home.

I think that people are right that there is less family support than there used to be, but I had absolutely none when I had my children in the late 1990s, so this is not a very new development. My mother didn’t have any family support in the 1960s either - both she and my father had moved away from the areas where they grew up.

I also agree that many people these days have expectations of everything being perfect. My (baby boom) generation didn’t expect that! Social media has a lot to answer for!

What’s that got to do with what I said? Very odd response! I will always help out other parents wherever I can, my point was that society has shifted so many people live away from family now and may find it harder then before - in answer to the original question. Is it tiring being so combative?!

My children are mid thirties. It's odd to read people's comments here. I was back at work when baby was 11 weeks old because we had no money and benefits were less. The mortgage rate was 12% (or similar) people's houses were being repossessed constantly.

Breast feeding was rammed down your throat whilst being back at work was an expectation. Loads of info about feeding, sleeping and lots of pressure to 'do the right thing' It's ironic that the same pressure still applies with different mandates to vulnerable women.
Little contact with other mothers because of work.
Struggled for space because of the tiny house I lived in.

My mortgage seemed impossible to ever pay off. Thanks to an endowment mortgage that I paid into for 25 yrs it was. I started again with a repayment mortgage 21 years later for the same house.
I was piss poor the whole of my children's lives.

I worked full time in a professional role
I now live in a big house, mortgage free listening to young people tell me how easy I had it.

just read a small bit of this !!

my great gran had 13 kids in between the years 1882 - 1906 - I just can’t imagine her prioritising ‘tummy time’ somehow

but you never know ..

There is so much focus on what mothers are doing wrong. My instagram feed is full of parenting advice by influencers who are not experts in any way “don’t do this and don’t do that”. It’s ridiculous.

So i presume you helped out lots of parents when they had a baby and continue to do so now, community works both ways

When my mum had me, she was surrounded by family. Once my partner went back to work after a few weeks, I was completely alone with no family within hundreds of miles. Women aren’t meant to do this by themselves - we’re meant to be part of a community. I think that’s why it’s got harder for many.

I would say for people who live their life through social media or some weird thing going on there they think having a child gives them special treatment or will fix dodgy relationships or some other utopia dream thing going on or think having a baby fixes whatever emotially immature thing they suffer from yes it would be hard

For normal intelligent rational people who children in normal relationships then no I do not think it is harder

Yes the expectation to be constant entertainment that you can just let kids be bored and create their own entertainment.

the failure to maintain or make new friendships so they can have a village and shared childcare.

lower wages, higher costs of living and more pressure with work, mortgages childcare etc.

In the past women used to stay in hospital for two weeks, even after a straight forward birth. When I had my baby, I was told to go home two hours after giving birth. I felt like I'd very much outstayed my welcome.

Combination of factors. The stigma about talking honestly about childbirth and its complications is reducing so you’re more aware of them. This may be controversial and I’m not advocating a return to the olden days but I feel with the increased choices available to women for childbirth (home vs hospital, do you want a water birth, do you want an epidural, do you want a section etc) there’s a mental load that potentially wasn’t there a few decades ago. If something goes wrong it’s easy to internalise that as you making a poor choice/contributing to it. By the nature of childbirth you’re asked if you give consent to various procedures when you’re physically and mentally exhausted. It’s totally valid that women should be leading the decisions about them but we also need to acknowledge these decisions are often very complex/there is no ‘right’ choice - there’s a reason O&G doctors have a 7 year training programme on top of medical school and foundation!

People tend to live further away from family (and in many cases grandparents are still working full time) so there isn’t that support as readily available.

Expectations have changed too - as there’s been a loss of that traditional community you get most of your info from NCT/antenatal groups or the internet. Both of which have the potential to be a bit competitive or completely sanitised. It’s so easy to compare yourself now to other mums and feel like you’re coming up short. Daily routine videos where other people’s babies have predictable ‘wake windows’ where it’s important to make sure they’re doing tummy time, looking at high contrast flash cards etc. What baby groups are you doing? Not just the local church hall playgroup but baby yoga, baby ballet, baby music, baby sensory, baby massage etc etc.

Take weaning for example - I was a 90s baby, my mum started with rusks and baby rice then onto a few spoons of whatever she was having. I went to a 1 hour presentation from the local health visitors about how to wean - here’s all the stuff you definitely can’t give them, here’s stuff they can have once a week, have you been giving them vitamins, here’s how to introduce the major allergens, they can have white bread but not brown bread, have you thought about going to the park near A&E to give them peanuts, fish is great but not too much fish, here’s how to do CPR if you don’t cut the food up correctly, here’s an app to check that tells you how to cut everything up as per your babies age, don’t buy pouches make it all fresh, just give them what you’re having (but make sure there’s no salt, no sugar, no this, no that) etc etc. Then if you look online you’re in the realms of beautifully arranged plates, advice that your baby needs to have tried 100 different foods before they turn one, my baby hasn’t had prawns yet does anyone have a recipe etc. My mum and gran are fascinated by all of this!

You’re given constant messaging about everything you need to do to make sure you’re baby meets their developmental milestones (another thing to measure yourself against) whilst you’re absolutely exhausted and potentially recovering from major surgery. I haven’t even touched on the pressure to lose the baby weight, juggle KIT days, sort childcare out months before the baby has even been born, make sure you’re still finding some time to dedicate to your relationship.

I think it’s incredibly easy now to fall into a toxic mindset of setting incredibly high standards for yourself and your parenting which are inevitably difficult to reach resulting in you constantly feeling on the back foot.

So much truth here

Yes I do think it’s harder now. When my DC were young, within walking distance I had three sets of aunts and uncles and my parents. All of whom were really happy to look after my DC. I could drop in anytime for a cup of tea and a chat. There was always someone ready to cuddle my DC.

Stay in hospital longer after birth meant I was rested, feeding was established, I felt confident bathing my baby. I’ve read some awful post birth hospital experiences on MN.

I live in a very socially diverse area. When I used to go to baby groups I noticed that the younger working class mums found it much easier than the older middle class mums. Several reasons for this I think. Usually the grandparents are younger so can help them more. They usually live nearer family rather than mc people who move more for work. They also haven't experienced a prolonged time as a childfree adult. Often the wc mums will have more friends who have babies than the mc mums. Middle class mums are often used to quite a high standard of living and a certain lifestyle which can be hard to keep up once you have a baby.

I do think there’s absolute truth in whoever said women nowadays don’t “have it all” we have to “do it all” - there’s so much pressure to be great mums, wives, have a career that we do well in, keep ourselves & our homes looking nice and have a social life!

I think this is very true. Where I grew up all the women were friendly / helpful enough to support each other when needed, picking things up from the shops, watching each others children or having a natter on the street. I remember a succession of neighbours coming round with food when my mum was poorly, even the ones who weren’t particularly friendly. My neighbours are lovely and we have similar age kids but we only ever see each other in passing, when arriving home or leaving for work / childcare drop off.

Yes agree with this.

Also women are having fewer babies now...so in previous generations your friends and family would have all had more babies than nowadays, so you would have been used to being around them a lot more.

I also think social media makes us feel that every aspect of life must be perfect..your relationship, your wedding, your house etc. Having a baby is not a picture perfect experience...it's messy, tiring, sometimes boring,...

I think more women are honest about how hard childbirth and raising a baby is. It has always been difficult unless you have an easy birth and easy baby. I found having a baby a really lonely experience.

Women were given longer recovery time in hospital, where they were fed nutritious food, and nurses looked after the baby while mum slept and rested. But there were of course many downsides back then also.

Women now are somewhat isolated during their maternity leave, friends and neighbours are all out at work.

And in terms of popping to a local shop with baby/toddler our world isn't particularly helpful what with self-service tills and little real human interaction, kidness or help available in everyday situations.

When my mum had me, she stayed in hospital for a week, the baby was taken away to be cared for so she could sleep!

My family all lived in the same town as there were plenty of jobs and housing was affordable. Working people on lower incomes got decent council houses. Mum did some part time work when I started primary school and went up to 4 days a week when I was at secondary.

I had my son by C-section at 7pm. I was home by lunchtime on day 2. We have no family nearby. I returned to work FT when he was 11mo. We couldn’t afford one of the fairly ordinary 3 bed semis on the street I grew up on with 2 incomes.

TOTALLY agree with this