To feel like some reasonable adjustments are actually unreasonable

and this is perfect example of what reasonable adjustments are.

I have autism as well (Asperger's in old terms). I struggled in office environments before WFH became a thing, but still managed to build a rather successful career, whilst suffering burn outs several times.

Many examples on this thread are not reasonable and this is the essence of this discussion.

In the good old days I was undiagnosed with autism. In the good old days I was bullied for being "odd", spent all my annual leave lying in a darkened room to cope with the burnout and never lasted more than about 9 months in a job because my face just didn't fit.

I've now been promoted faster than anyone on my retraining course (I career switched), I'm an absolute integral part of my team, generally I work way way above my pay grade in terms of the strategic stuff and support for junior colleagues I provide, as well as the complexity of clients I work with. I quite regularly end up having to cover 2-3 people's caseloads as we're never fully bloody staffed.

My reasonable adjustments - which would have MN chucking shitfits no doubt are:
Colleagues to understand that sometimes I come across a little bit socially awkward or screw up slightly and to have full permission to tell me to calm it down if my mouth is digging me into a hole (when I'm anxious my mouth tends to run off on its own tangents)
I'm allowed more leniency in terms of working from home when I'm just doing routine admin stuff - just to balance burnout - the work gets done, I'm available 100% of the time I would be in the office (even down to lunchbreaks - I make sure I only take my contractually agreed time)
If I'm in the office struggling to concentrate and don't need to be listening to stuff going on around me (like the ins and outs of Love Island the previous night) I put headphones on at times
The entire service has now switched to interview questions in advance - and we all bloody love it!
Reduction in hot desking where it's possible to do this (mainly for another colleague who really panics when she has to move desks but as I'm diagnosed and have "official" brain wonkiness I've used that to support pushing senior management's awareness that they need to consider staff needs as a whole when they're randomly closing offices all over).

I do as much as, if not more work than anyone else on my team. I'm praised by carers and families for the fact that I'm often the first professional in years who has "got" what they're trying to tell us, and I'm actually a lot better at my job for being that bit differently wired - so yep, if those few tiny adjustments, all carefully done so I'm not at all deemed to be taking the piss, make me able to do this - bring them on.

I was also open about my autism right from interview - raised it on application forms, made sure it was explicitly clear at interview because I've been discriminated against before and wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be going into a situation I was again.

If you went to a sen school, say you did a restricted curriculum, spent longer getting your qualifications because of an ehc plan, need help during the interview, have an obvious disability, this won't work.

Btw my younger daughter has autism but tells no one. She hates being seen as different and just gets on with it, despite all the problems that causes (mainly with interpersonal relationships).

In the good old days I was undiagnosed with autism. In the good old days I was bullied for being "odd", spent all my annual leave lying in a darkened room to cope with the burnout and never lasted more than about 9 months in a job because my face just didn't fit.

I've now been promoted faster than anyone on my retraining course (I career switched), I'm an absolute integral part of my team, generally I work way way above my pay grade in terms of the strategic stuff and support for junior colleagues I provide, as well as the complexity of clients I work with. I quite regularly end up having to cover 2-3 people's caseloads as we're never fully bloody staffed.

My reasonable adjustments - which would have MN chucking shitfits no doubt are:
Colleagues to understand that sometimes I come across a little bit socially awkward or screw up slightly and to have full permission to tell me to calm it down if my mouth is digging me into a hole (when I'm anxious my mouth tends to run off on its own tangents)
I'm allowed more leniency in terms of working from home when I'm just doing routine admin stuff - just to balance burnout - the work gets done, I'm available 100% of the time I would be in the office (even down to lunchbreaks - I make sure I only take my contractually agreed time)
If I'm in the office struggling to concentrate and don't need to be listening to stuff going on around me (like the ins and outs of Love Island the previous night) I put headphones on at times
The entire service has now switched to interview questions in advance - and we all bloody love it!
Reduction in hot desking where it's possible to do this (mainly for another colleague who really panics when she has to move desks but as I'm diagnosed and have "official" brain wonkiness I've used that to support pushing senior management's awareness that they need to consider staff needs as a whole when they're randomly closing offices all over).

I do as much as, if not more work than anyone else on my team. I'm praised by carers and families for the fact that I'm often the first professional in years who has "got" what they're trying to tell us, and I'm actually a lot better at my job for being that bit differently wired - so yep, if those few tiny adjustments, all carefully done so I'm not at all deemed to be taking the piss, make me able to do this - bring them on.

I was also open about my autism right from interview - raised it on application forms, made sure it was explicitly clear at interview because I've been discriminated against before and wanted to make sure I wasn't going to be going into a situation I was again.

This is why I am a big advocate for not disclosing your disability until your first day at work, springing it on them will prevent staff with disabilities from being discriminated against during the hiring process.

Not the "in good ol days we nanaged" bs...
Wet didn't manage it in the past, people who needed adjustments didn't get them and were out of work. Now the subsequent governments want them to contribute and to work, as it's a right for people with disabilities to have the necessary adjustments.

This would only work for invisible disabilities. Wouldn’t it be better to let your boss know what was required before you arrived on day one and couldn’t do your job? Surely once the contract is signed you could say your needs are so that a solution could be found?

This is why I am a big advocate for not disclosing your disability until your first day at work, springing it on them will prevent staff with disabilities from being discriminated against during the hiring process.

I'm now retired but I had both - managed a very large team (and quite a few of them became my life long friends eventually) and grafted more than 30 years with significant disability.

There are a lot of business owners at the moment who are questioning whether they want to still be business owners. My bosses included.

reasonable adjustments are fine thing but ultimately people are employed to do a job.

Companies may make reasonable adjustments for existing staff, but how likely are they to employ people knowing about their disabilities and the adjustments that will be needed?

In my experience they won't. The gov is removing PIP from lots of people and telling them to get jobs but the jobs dont exist. And part of the reason is the unwillingness of employers to take them on.

it's a fine balance I guess, businesses are struggling lately and don't want to make adjustments but I guess if they don't want to work within the remit of the law they shouldn't be business owners.

One could argue that is exactly the sort of thing PIP is for, to help bridge the gap where part time working is required?

You totally missed the point of what reasonable adjustments are and I hope you are not and never stop be in a position of responsibility over others. The other option for you is to become disabled and try to work, and tell us in some years time how it worked out.

Of course, the same could be said for lots of other things. That is why it is important to listen to people who are living with disabilities, who can see things from a different perspective.

I think sometimes those lucky enough to not have disabilities find it hard to put themselves in other peoples shoes.

You totally missed the point of what reasonable adjustments are and I hope you are not and never stop be in a position of responsibility over others. The other option for you is to become disabled and try to work, and tell us in some years time how it worked out.

Most employers are unable to cover these costs to enable disabled people working for them in roles these people want. It would be great if they could, but they mostly can't.

It just doesn't make any sense to employ a person in a role they can't do permanently. I accept that some very shor-term adjustments might work, but if it's perm disability.

A person in a wheelchair can't be a bricklayer, no matter how much they might want it. They might be a top IT, lawyer, accountant, etc etc, but not a bricklayer. To force a building company to make adjustments for them is unreasonable.

Equally, a person who gets overwhelmed by working with people, and sick people at
this, probably shouldn't be a nurse. They can be a brilliant accountant or do many other roles.

To get a project manager who gets anxiety over deadlines, then move them to an admin role and still pay the project manager's salary is not a reasonable adjustment.

People need to get real.

1. wheelchair user, not person in a wheelchair.
2. Many wheelchair users can lay bricks.

Most employers are unable to cover these costs to enable disabled people working for them in roles these people want. It would be great if they could, but they mostly can't.

It just doesn't make any sense to employ a person in a role they can't do permanently. I accept that some very shor-term adjustments might work, but if it's perm disability.

A person in a wheelchair can't be a bricklayer, no matter how much they might want it. They might be a top IT, lawyer, accountant, etc etc, but not a bricklayer. To force a building company to make adjustments for them is unreasonable.

Equally, a person who gets overwhelmed by working with people, and sick people at
this, probably shouldn't be a nurse. They can be a brilliant accountant or do many other roles.

To get a project manager who gets anxiety over deadlines, then move them to an admin role and still pay the project manager's salary is not a reasonable adjustment.

People need to get real.

Not the "in good ol days we nanaged" bs...
Wet didn't manage it in the past, people who needed adjustments didn't get them and were out of work. Now the subsequent governments want them to contribute and to work, as it's a right for people with disabilities to have the necessary adjustments.

😩so now your workload needs some reasonable adjustments to compensate for others reasonable adjustments. How did society used to manage...