Nursery hand over comment. Would you complain?

To me it’s an age- innapropriate label/ adult projection. It’s like when people say “oh so and so 3 yr old is such a flirt”. Gives me the proper ick.

😂😂😂 This can’t be real! You’d be hard pressed to find a toddler who has never had an attitude and it’s a perfectly acceptable way to describe it.

Sorry I just realised I used the word toddler again 😂. If my 3 yr old…

Calling someone fat was generally a complement where I lived for many years- v rural. People used to say it to me sometimes - I wasn’t in the least bit fat - sz 8 - and they weren’t in the least bit rude or unpleasant people. It still bothered me though ofc.

Interesting that you used Uganda as an example. My DH is Ugandan, I lived there for many years. Fat isn't always a compliment 😂

Ahh well, we will have to agree to disagree about 3 year olds as well as what constitutes rudeness .

I’m pretty sure that your 3 year old is calling you a “dumbo head” because they think it’s funny and out of humour, endearment and affection . I wouldn’t consider that “negative behaviour” personally . But you do you!

Maybe we are using the word “rude” differently .

To me “rude” is entirely subjective and “unpleasant” is a value judgement . what I mean is, for example,

if I as a British person commented to my friend that she was fat, I’d be being rude, mean and unpleasant.

If my colleague in rural Uganda told me I was fat, she’d be paying me a compliment.

If my toddler commented someone was fat she would be making an observation or perhaps copying someone else. She wouldn’t think about/ understand how it might make someone else feel. Of course I would then explain to her that we mustn’t comment on people’s size as it can be hurtful/ rude , but in no way shape or form would I describe her behaviour as being “rude” or “unpleasant” any more than I would call my Ugandan colleague rude and unpleasant for paying me what she thought was a compliment.

I’d be really concerned at a childcare practitioner describing her as having an “attitude”. She simply doesn’t have the maturity for that.

Of course violent is subjective. For example if I bite you but it doesn't hurt. Or throw a toy at your head, but miss. Or push you over then say it was an accident. No more subjective than calling you a "dumbo head" which is obviously intended to be rude.
I never disagreed that 3 year old do those things. But you have to identify them as negative things in order to combat them. If you can observe violence, then you can observe rudeness. And if you think a 3yo is incapable of intentional rudeness, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

@Blessthismess2 I’m not getting your logic at all.
Violent describes an action.
Rude is an adjective that describes how someone has spoken or behaved therefore both are describing words.

At my place of work we try to gently describe the actions of a child who has continuously misbehaved whether it be violent or rude. But not for a one off, this would have to be a continual situation whereby we feel we need to work together with a parent.

some parents can get offended about these types of discussions about their children however thankfully most take these chats on board and are happy and willing to work with us to encourage kinder words and gentler hands.

having worked in early years we are seeing more and more parents who have never said no to their children, who’s children rule the house and who set no boundaries or consequences for negative behaviour, God help these children and parents when they start school.

To me the word “violent” is not subjective- it describes
a particular type of behaviour that involves inflicting physical harm. However, it wasn’t even my word- it was the word of a pp practitioner who said that 3 year olds could “even be violent… bitting, hitting, kicking” etc.

I agreed with her that 3 year olds definitely do these things. Do you disagree that they do?

Why does 1-3 mean inclusive of 1 but not of 3? Makes no sense to me. If it were 1 and 2 it would be: 1-2.

As I said, I personally don’t find it acceptable to call a 3 year old “rude”. Three year olds do not have the social and interpersonal awareness to understand the social conventions of politeness, nor do they have the theory of mind to predict how someone else might receive / interpret their comments.

3 year olds are authentic, spontaneous, impulsive, uninhibited. They are still learning how to express themselves in language and how to communicate.

Any adult receiving their words as rude is projecting developmentally inappropriate ideas on them.

You can't call small children violent and then get offended when someone else says they are rude. Rudeness is no more subjective than violence.
And of course adults should judge the behaviour of 3 year old!

Wikipedia isn’t the font of all knowledge. I have googled it myself this afternoon…just to back myself, and stop thinking that I was going mad, and the definition was ‘between 1 and 3’ Therefore children three and above are not toddlers (inclusive)

I used the word rude because other have done. It’s not adult projection, it’s opinion based on years of experience. I’ve had parents tell me their children were being rude to me, and I’ve witnessed children being rude to their parents on occasions and have told them I’m not happy with the way they have spoken to their parents. On all occasions I have been thanked for speaking to them about the way they have acted with their parents (I haven’t shouted or raised my voice or any of that, just spoken to them and in front of their parents) and have been told they act like that at home as well and parents are at the end of being able to cope with the way they have been spoken to by their own children. I think you’d be hard pressed to find an educator these days who hasn’t thought at some point, that a child is being rude.

I don’t think we will agree so I’m going to leave it there with my responses to you, I don’t think you are going to get many (especially amongst those of us who work in the education sector) that will agree with you.

Stop insulting me (and my children) because I disagree with you. It’s ok to have a difference of opinion. I’m horrified at people calling 3 year olds “rude” and “unpleasant”. I’m sorry if that offends you, but it is what it is.

Im not “labelling” children violent. A pp said that 3 year olds “can be violent” - meaning they hit, kick and bite. I agreed that of course they could and often do these things. This is simply an objective description of behaviour.

”Rude” and “unpleasant” are entirely subjective constructs- they require someone to interpret the behaviour and make a value judgement about it. It’s not developmentally appropriate to interpret or judge the behaviour of a 3 year old in this manner .

I don't understand your point. You insist that we can't possibly call them rude for saying rude things. But you have no issue labelling them as violent. It isn't logical.
It sounds to me like as though you don't discipline you (now several) children which is why their unchecked rudeness escalates into violence. Are you OPs friend?

I really don’t understand your point.

are you disputing the fact that 3 year olds often hit, kick and bite?

”rude” and “unpleasant” are entirely subjective, value judgements.

hitting, kicking, bitting are objective descriptions of behaviour.

So it's a projection to call them rude, but totally fine to call them violent? Where on earth is the logic?

Ok 🤷🏼‍♀️. All I can say is as a mother of swveral children, I entirely disagree with you.

It’s entirely an adult projection to call a 3 year old “rude” and “unpleasant”. I would not want anyone with such an attitude caring for my 3 year old, and nor would I use such language to describe someone else’s 3 year old.

As for the use of the word toddler- it really doesn’t matter, I suppose people use the word in different ways, but this is what Wikipedia pulls up on toddler en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toddler

Lol, ok! I expected you to say that. But then, why change the habit of a lifetime.

The majority of people on this thread who work with children don’t agree with your outdated ‘disagreement’ with their experience. Three year olds are most definitely NOT toddlers! I’ve taught tens if not hundreds in my twenty years of teaching and have NEVER referred to them or heard them referred to as toddlers.

Three year olds also most definitely have attitude and are rude, because, most three year olds copy what they have seen IRL or on TV and like to act out their experiences. Whether they are aware that it is socially acceptable or whatever you are trying to argue (I’ve paraphrased your psychobabble), I’m unsure…maybe there is research out there you could signpost us to. However, trying to downplay the experiences of many on this thread who have worked with threenagers for years, is quite frankly condescending!

If that were the case people would say toddlers are 1-2. Most resources will. Say 1-3. Most 2 year olds walk comfortably they’re still indisputably toddlers so I disagree.

Between one and three.

Toddler also refers to children who are learning to ‘toddle’ or walk for the first time. Hence using the word toddler! I suspect at three years old (and we don’t know how three the three year old is, the girl will have been walking around for more than half her life! So ‘toddler’ is definitely not a word most people would use to describe a three year old!

Yes 3 year olds sometimes kick, hit and bite. Of course they do.

Mine occasionally are like this at home with their siblings, but never ever at nursery or school, but lots of other kids do and this is very common at 3. Both my elder kids came home from nursery once with a bite mark on their arm.

It never occurred to me to think of the kids that bit them as “unpleasant” or having “terrible parents”. I just assumed they were 3 year olds struggling with impulse control - whether excitement, overwhelm, aggression, whatever.

Not difficult to see where the child gets the attitude from, is it?

And three year olds can be rude as fuck. People just usually excuse it. Especially their parents.

Disagree-
toddlers are generally considered to be ages 1-3.

Impulse and emotion control barely begins before 3.5 and takes many, many more years to consistently master.

3 year olds also have only a very very rudimentary theory of mind, necessary for understanding things like how to be or not to be “rude”.

So they can't possibly be rude, but of course they are violent? You sound like a terrible parent.