Muslim women who dress modestly...

You mean you don't want anyone to raise the subject of Muslim women's miserable lives.

I saw a Stacey Dooley doc on Ultra Orthodox Jews in London and they thought the same thing. Husbands wouldn't sleep in the same bed as their wives on their periods because they were seen as unclean. Maybe that's just a general really religious thing?

A quick Google actually tells me that the Bible says the same, she will be 'unclean' for 7 days and anyone who touches her until evening.

Nice.

Im reading the qur’an at the moment. A few pages in and I’m reading that women are dirty on their period and do not go near them until they are clean.

nice.

But that’s the thing, in the UK it is a normal part of society. You have been saying that Muslim parents aren’t any different, so which is it.

This is quite an odd thing for you to be pondering tbh.

So come on then, educate me and tell me why all these Muslims are wrong. Show me where in the Quran a Muslim woman should be treated equally to a man with all the same rights and freedoms as a man. Show me where a woman can marry multiple men, show me where it says a woman can divorce as easily as a man, show me where it states a woman has. Equal rights over her children, show me where a man is equally restricted regarding mixing with women, with what he wears.

I’ll Happily listen to that information. I think most people would be interested to listen

It may be the age of consent, but the fact that you do not understand how that would be completely unacceptable to Muslim parents for their children shows your lack of understanding of different people.
For you a 15 year old drinking is normal, for us is very wrong and not something I would allow my children to do, akin to maybe you finding your child doing drugs

When they're adults and living by themselves they can do what they want, but I can't allow that behaviour and call myself a responsible parent.
If that means they go sneak out like some teens do, then that's an undesirable behaviour and I would have to use the same parenting that anyone would, like you would if your child was say, skipping school, or taking drugs.

Not Islam
whatever you describe is honestly not Islam
I don’t understand which bit you don’t quite understand

these are cultural practices

living in Birmingham means nothing

I CHALLENGE you to actually study rather than look at these Muslims who practice culture rather than the true faith
and call it Islamic

your not educated on the faith
You don’t understand the faith
you don’t believe in the faith

I ask you kindly to at least look into the true beliefs of what Islam says on all the matters mentioned above so you can clarify these misconceptions
I wish you nothing but peace

goodbye

The fact that you regard as a decent parent someone that is OK with their 15-16 year olds drinking and having sex tells everything

tells what? The age of sexual consent is 16.

Plenty of examples here where teens go live with their father/granma/aunty so they get away from bad company, so what's the issue there?

Ive never heard of this as being normalised as a threat for bad behaviour.

Why? I really don't think it is.

Ummm, I beg to differ. Social services would be very concerned about moving children/ young adults abroad forcefully against their will.

It they were going to the beach and intending to swim, they’d bring whatever they’d want, same as anyone I suppose.

Oh I’ve lived for a long time in Birmingham - I know a lot of Muslims thanks. I’ve seen them fall in love with one person and then be told that they couldn’t marry them it had to be their friends son. I’ve seen them unable to fully partake in society because they were discouraged from learning English, I’ve seen them excluded from things because they’re women, have totally different wardrobes for when they’re away from families. In fact one of my friends got married then immediately regret it as she had been forced into it. Her knew husband destroyed her life and her family had to pay him alot of money..

You see I have lived in a heavily Muslim community, I know exactly what it’s like - no need to feel sorry for me at all.

The fact that you regard as a decent parent someone that is OK with their 15-16 year olds drinking and having sex tells everything
Sending kids back home means sending them to stay with family. Where did you think those kids are sent, to sleep on the street?
Plenty of examples here where teens go live with their father/granma/aunty so they get away from bad company, so what's the issue there?

Why is saying organised religion has no part in western society (which has become largely secular appaling) which is stating that the history of Western Europe is largely based on Christianity and pre Christian pagan religions (an historical fact) bigotry? Do you not agree with this history. A history that has shaped the traditions and institutions of those societies. I’m sorry but these are all facts. It’s not bigotry to state a true history of a society is it?

Nuns/clerics etc have chosen a vocation, this is the uniform of that vocation. They have chosen to take that role, they are free to leave it. I’ve seen bins paddling in the sea, lifting their clothing to their knees. Our Franciscan nun head teacher was seen in a local pub on more than one occasion. Our school had many strong women teachers who were nuns. They certainly weren’t being kept in check by any men.

what women wear, when that is decided by men is very much what this thread is about. Misogyny

Social services would not be interested at parents sending their child to stay with granma for a while, parents can choose where their child should stay.

What you described from your friends if it’s true, has absolutely no basis in Islam

i suggest you go study the religion before misinterpreting your friends parents ideologies with the religion Islam

honestly I feel sad for you all for your lack of knowledge and understanding on the matter

I think it’s time you met REAL Muslims who practise and know the faith correctly

please don’t worry about us

we have the World’s Freedom

we live like Queens, darlings

we really really do and I don’t intend to exaggerate or be funny here

Most of the points you mentioned are cultural practices, or done in the name of Islam
it is not Islam itself
I challenge you to look into for yourself with an open mind

Once again
I thank you for looking out for us Muslim women, much appreciated, but we are doing just fine!

Actually , threatening to send a child to another country away from their home and friends for not obeying their parents is not normal behaviour and I would classify it as emotional abuse. Most parents, if they value their relationship with their child do not clamp down on their kids unless they are in danger, they know their kids are probably having some drinks at 15 with their mates. Their 16 year old daughter is probably having sex with their boyfriend. Because that’s what they did. The decent parent equips their child with the skills to handle these parts of growing up.

Threatening to send a child to probably a different continent if the don’t toe the line is abusive and I would be immediately reporting the parents to the authorities if I witnessed this type of abuse of any of my child’s friends- it’s disgusting.

Actually , threatening to send a child to another country away from their home and friends for not obeying their parents is not normal behaviour and I would classify it as emotional abuse. Most parents, if they value their relationship with their child do not clamp down on their kids unless they are in danger, they know their kids are probably having some drinks at 15 with their mates. Their 16 year old daughter is probably having sex with their boyfriend. Because that’s what they did. The decent parent equips their child with the skills to handle these parts of growing up.

Threatening to send a child to probably a different continent if the don’t toe the line is abusive and I would be immediately reporting the parents to the authorities if I witnessed this type of abuse of any of my child’s friends- it’s disgusting.

Have you been lobbying to force nuns to wear normal clothes and get rid of the habit and veil?

In relation to all your paragraphs other than the last one, this is not what this thread is about, which is about what people are wearing.

If you are aware of specific misogynistic actions or behaviour either in western societies or other societies, be specific about what is happening, be certain about evidence and make sure it is not misreporting by media, and then do a petition to raise awareness about that specific issue.

Otherwise you come across as a bigot.

In relation to western societies I think we should get porn off the shelf - porn should go back to being only found in adult only shops, get porn off the net completely as it is being viewed constantly by children etc. Make it illegal to show girls and women in underwear everywhere. Deal with the grooming gangs and all other trafficking and the disgusting activities on the dark net far more effectively.

Your last paragraph is unacceptable and shows ignorance. You should really be focusing on the issues in my above paragraph.

Have you missed the part where they were prevented from leaving the house by a padlock being put on the front door? Where as a 16 year old teenager, they were threatened with being taken out of the country to marry someone abroad, so they asked me to hide their passport? Where they were not allowed to have non Muslim friends? Where their education was threatened to be withdrawn if they didn't comply? I don't think any of that is acceptable, protective caring parent behaviour. How do you think social services would see it? It's abuse.

I think we need to have a very honest discussion on this. In a society which aims for equality between the sexes we need to ensure that there is no support of ideologies which have embedded restrictions on women living their day to day lives.

it is up to individual women if they want to abide by these rules but society as a whole needs to show and clearly state its disapproval of institutions which treat women as having lesser freedoms and autonomy than men. We must also remember that women’s “free choice” to act in accordance with the restrictions set out in the ideology they follow, ideep down, is not”free choice” at all but choice shaped by that ideology.

We must set aside cultural sensitivities and condem at every turn the subordination of women. It’s not acceptable from Andrew Tate, it’s not acceptable from an Inman, it should not be acceptable for anyone in some of the niche Christian faiths who quote Paul to get women to dress modestly. Not teach etc. I would also include men who tell women to shut up and cause them to lose jobs etc when they stand up for their freedom and dignity. These men(and enabling women) are also abusers

We should have a very specific crime of misogyny that includes any institution having lesser freedoms for women preaching these things from any religion or ideology should be a crime. There should be zero tolerance of men suggesting/demanding women should act in certain ways. This needs to be fully explored in schools. Every boy and girl should be taught it is fundamentally wrong to apply different rules to men and women regardless of where the ideology comes from, the Bible, the Quran, Andrew Tate or Tik tok..We can’t be telling boys it is wrong to treat women as less than in one in one lesson then telling them to respect religions that have this embedded in them in another. We need to be very clear with the messaging here. The can be no room for ambiguity. Anyone coming into the country who does not fully understand and practice this needs to be refused entry.

Organised religion is outdated and has no role outside individual beliefs in modern society, except where it applies to a country's traditions which in Western Europe is either Christianity or older pagan tradition, eg celebrating Christmas/easter, May Day, solstice, equinox etc.