Seriously thinking about leaving the UK

I don’t think I was blaming the workers. I think the factors you have identified are exactly what would contribute to a happier work force and a stronger work ethic

Why are you assuming OP is part of the wealthy elite?

And they are all the negative, unproductive brits are they? All the positive, productive ones stay in the UK of course….

Carte de sejour. Then once over there permenantly we will be going through the citizenship process. Again - its an insane ammount of paperwork, only complicated by brexit. but its been the plan for many years, and i can't wait!

You are part of the problem. People on benefits aren't the reason everything is deteriorating, it's the wealthy elite.
I wonder who you have voted for over the last 40 years 🤔

''@CooCooCachoo

I agree! While the French are capable of complaining about the state of things as well as anyone and seem to strike at the drop of a hat, there is definitely not anything like the sense of entitlement prevalent in the UK and a much greater sense of just getting on with things. I appreciate its a generalisation but I believe there is a stronger work ethic here.''

I don't think it is about work ethics.

France has a better health system and better working conditions and childcare provision, does not have a long hour/presenteism work culture and in general believe in a socialist view of the world. One of the reasons being that unions have much more power there and people never hesitate to take on the government/bosses if they are unhappy.

The UK has a failing health and social care system, low wages, high student debts but high living costs and is enthralled by capitalism. All of that affects moral and work conditions, so no wonder our productivity is low. You can't just blame the workers. You have to look at the bigger picture.

Agree with your post more than the one you’re replying to

We've just spent two and a half years living and working in Australia - we have about 18 months to go before we come back permanently and we are counting the days. In the meantime we've just come back to UK for a three week break and we are loving it, the green lush countryside, the long summer evenings, country lanes, country pubs, village fetes, live music, historic cities, and spending time with our friends. People moan about the NHS but it is free - I had to have an endoscopy in Australia earlier this year and even with Medicare it cost me few hundred dollars. Cost of living is as high there as here and there are the same drugs and crime issues. And everyone moans about the weather in the UK comparing it to Australia but I always say we have access to a rich diversity of cultures, landscapes and climates just by hopping on a flight to Europe. Whereas much of Australia is unbearably hot and/or uninhabitable. Grass isn't always greener.

They also have more tax bands, starting at 11% and flat rate - combined - of CGT of 30%... property sales taxes too, which generally speaking, keeps property prices and rents lower, a lot lower than the UK.

They also are able to build stuff without the constant corruption and fraud we see here.

France is also bring in another attempt at a wealth tax....

Hmmmm,
One key difference about France is they pay more tax. Hence the government has more to spend on infrastructure etc. They also have stricter laws about firing people. We had Thatcher etc and went in a different direction. But most of the "I'm leaving the UK" threads.on here talk about dissatisfaction with being high tax payers and having to "subsidised" the rest of society,.or with private school VAT,.or Labours changes to worker rights being an "attack" on business. In France they pay a bit more tax overall - and workers have more rights.if quality of life is still better even for high tax band people that should be a clue.
So someone moaning about those things in the UK would presumably remain unhappy in France.

Well there are heaps of expat Brits in my neck of the woods so I beg to differ..

Consider that it’s not the entitled, negative, unproductive brits that are leaving….

Problem is with all these British people leaving the UK is they'll spread that negativity, entitlement and unproductiveness across other countries. Much better for everyone if they stay in the UK.

I've lived in 4 countries, currently in Scotland, and I have friends in France, Canada, Italy, USA, Spain, Costa Rica, Chile, and Mexico, and I can tell you every single one of these places have their own BIG issues.

@CooCooCachoo having lived in Copenhagen for 20 months ( and came back for elderly relative reasons) the idea that everywhere is shit is for the birds- and people who for whatever reason cling to the idea that ‘nowhere like home’ — everywhere has some ‘issues’ but you balance those issues up - if we hadn’t had Brexit I’m pretty sure my very hard working IT hardware 27 year old son would now be in Denmark, Sweden or Netherlands already- now it isn’t so simple, even in relatively in demand careers because it’s much easier and less complicated for swedes , Dane’s and Dutch to employ Germans, Italians, Spaniards etc than it is a Brit. I think there are some people who for whatever bizzare reason they have want it to be an equal shit show elsewhere , and I don’t blame this gvt at all by the way , everything from lack of social housing to Brexit to selling off public services to tugging forelocks to bankers has lead to why the country is as it is in my view-

I agree! While the French are capable of complaining about the state of things as well as anyone and seem to strike at the drop of a hat, there is definitely not anything like the sense of entitlement prevalent in the UK and a much greater sense of just getting on with things. I appreciate its a generalisation but I believe there is a stronger work ethic here.

There are Franglais families where I live that have uni age children travelling between UK/France - some flights are the same price/ cheaper than an ´in-UK’ train ticket. Plus why do you assume that said kids with the opportunity to have one foot in Europe and one outside do not take full advantage of the possibility of attending school in more than one jurisdiction. It’s that sort of narrow minded view that we feel we are escaping. And heat waves, flash floods etc… so don’t move to those regions. Plenty of other options in Europe let alone globally and there are heatwaves and flash floods in the UK too. I think the question here is ´is the grass really greener?´ and in our personal experience, absolutely, yes and getting lusher by the year it seems. Personally I love France but also aspire to retire to somewhere in the Nordics in the future. Retirement in the UK will not be an option we realistically consider.

At a guess maybe the OPs DC might care? when they finish Uni and have no home to return to in the UK but want to work/save money to get a deposit for their 1st flat or save up enough to rent? The OP says the only reason they'd stay would be for potential future grandchildren but what about their actual DC who are only in their early 20s I imagine?? Bit heartless. Plus the grass definitely isn't always greener elsewhere and what about the crazy climate change issues in many, many other countries. Forest fires? no thanks. 40 degree heat all summer? Erm no I'd rather not 🤷‍♀️ Flash floods. Just awful.

French have much higher rates of productivity than the British. That goes a large way towards quality of life - basically we work a lot longer to make the same
But part of the reason for the higher productivity is thought to be that the government spends a higher proportion of GDP than in the UK. Which is ironic because one would assume smaller government, less tax and spend = more efficiency but apparently not (up to a point). So there is better infrastructure, less time wasted when trains are cancelled etc.

As it is intended to do.

It’s a post Covid global problem. Everywhere is suffering.

I hear you, however I believe it is a global issue. I agree though our quality of life is not as strong as my parents were and only my father worked!
Im reading the comments as DH and I do fancy moving to France or Spain.

This is a long answer but we were where you are not so long ago so thought it worthy of a proper response! We moved to France 18 months ago with secondary school aged children; school and the UK economy were actually the primary drivers for us. Our quality of life from UK is vastly different. Food is more expensive but far better quality and very seasonal and regional which we see as a plus. Utility bills are cheaper, both the house we rented and the one we subsequently bought are far larger cheaper than in the UK and before anyone says housing all property in the countryside in France is cheap and we won’t be able to return to the UK because of property increases (heard many times), we have bought in one of the most desirable leafy suburbs of the 5th biggest city in France at the bottom of the market - so future proofed to an extent but I can also not se it very likely that we will ever return to the UK. Northern enough in France that we are not toasted in summer but south enough to make a real difference to quality of life. French bureaucracy drives me crazy and this made the first 12 months tough getting set up in tax/health care regimes but the advantages far outweigh this - we were high earners in the UK but felt we always had to watch every penny, private school was never an option. On the same salaries in France we feel positively affluent and barely feel the school fees for two in a private International School, plus extra private tuition for languages and some amazing sports clubs for the kids. for full disclosure, husband is French but never wanted to move back ‘home’ until Truss - that was the final straw for us economically as were just about to remortgage when that crap hit the fan. We decided we just didn’t want to and put the house on the market instead…Best. Decision. Ever.

I don’t want to live anywhere with religion driving the state or laws - Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, none of them!

I loved The Hague on a recent visit. I agree with everything you said. I’m trying to limit my news as it get me down. Hearing the news once/twice a day is much healthier for me.