Seriously thinking about leaving the UK

Which are the other four?

What's your plan OP have you actually looked into where you could go and what it's like? I'm dual national British born with NZ citizenship. There are things i love about the UK and there are things I love about NZ but equally there are things I don't like about both places. I've been back in the UK for over 10 years and might go back to NZ at some point but I don't need a visa as I have citizenship and all my kids have dual citizenship as well so can move freely between both places. It's not like being on holiday if you live somewhere else. My first year in NZ was so hard as everything from supermarkets, to banking to utilities was different and required so much effort to just get the basics in place as we knew nothing. You also have to take into account being able to afford to come back if you realise the grass isn't greener. My lovely friends in NZ often have the same moans as we do about costs and healthcare.

@eqpi4t2hbsnktd which country are you talking about?

I also don't want to live somewhere where the majority of people will be Muslin.

I'm not religious... I don't want to live in a predominately religious country. Especially a religion which is so awful for women.

I'm not racist. I'm religionist.

the mood in this country is generally oppressive and people are pissed off and miserable which has a knock on effect.

That's largely because of the media, particularly the right wing controlled outlets, who absolutely thrive of doom, gloom and division.

I was listening to Wes Streeting the other day and what struck me most was that he didn't pretend everything was great,laid out the difficult and complex challenges ahead, and set out how he planned to tackle them. In short he sounded like a grown up politician. He did however, mention some successes they've had with the NHS e.g., delivering 4.2 million extra appointments against a target of 2 million, ending the doctor strike (and he was very clear on why he was upset with the proposed new strikes) and cutting waiting lists by 250k or so. Maybe not save the day stuff but small steps in the right direction.

Was any of this reported in the MSM? Of course, not. We just can't be speaking positively about the country or the government now can we? Instead the mail, express and telegraph all went with a front page story about benefits from a right wing think tank. Cause why would you want to report something positive when you can whip the masses into a froth about the poor and disabled and sell more papers/clicks?

The saddest, and scariest, part is seeing just how many people fall for it every...single...day.

We are planning on leaving too.

Moving to france in 3 years time, once i've finished my masters and professional qualification.

Property is cheaper, and mum and I already have right to be there due to education, work etc already having been in france over a period of years.

I'm not looking forward to the mortgage malarky over there, but its still better than here, Theres more treatments available for my medical conditions than we have over here on the NHS, and with the "carte Vert" at about a quarter of the cost. Dentistry is actually available, and again, much, much cheaper

I'd go - make the most of it!

I visited a friend there and the food prices are eye watering. The tipping culture is beyond a joke too.

I bought a bottomless soft drink on a hot day, sales tax was added to the price then it was suggested I pay a 18% tip to the server who handed me an empty cup to go and fill my own drink from a machine. You cant even buy an ice cream from a kiosk they want 18% tip. Tipping ia ao ingrained.

Look at internet prices too and mobile contracts.

I know someone who moved to the Canary Islands,bought a bar, put kids in school etc.
2 years later we caught up and all she could moan about was how in Spain kids have to buy their own books, schools dont provide, and how much that cost.
They moved back after 5 years.
Reality is expensive.

Why do people get so defensive. The UK has issues and some people want to leave. No need to take it personally.

I can see we have got some things wrong here, but I don’t want to leave the UK as no other country appeals and I like a lot about life here still. I don’t mind if others hate it here, I understand why; you don’t have to have a blind loyalty to your country.

We aren’t a dictator state who have to swear loyalty to our state and leader, thank goodness!

No need to be so snippy, or inaccurate. Is that how you talk to others in ‘real’ life?

Unless you have a specialist skill Canada are unlikely to take you. As others have said the cost of living in Canada is crazy. Yes wages are higher but a lot of young people are pretty much resigned to not being able to afford a house ever.

europe is pretty much impossible thanks to brexit.

australia would have similar requirements to Canada I think. Not sure about NZ. But ultimately you need to be below a certain age and have something to offer that country and no medical issues to stand a chance.

Surely it depends on whether you can find work abroad - what is your plan?

My neighbour has said this and that he's "pissing off to France"

With a British passport, unless you're minted or have a special 'in' somewhere (eg employability wise), it can't be easy to find somewhere great that'll take you, and presumably you'd have to pay for healthcare etc when you got there so could just as well go private here. Maybe there's a place you can go where the figures and the lifestyle stacks up, but if so, they must be swamped. Still, yanbu to be naffed off with how it is now. I just think it's a bigger issue beyond the UK and even though some places are definitely more sorted, whether they'd welcome us moving there is another thing entirely.

I think you should go. More space for those of us who appreciate living here.

I’ve done it.

Which visa were you thinking to use for which countries? I assume you’ve already checked this out.

With you op

we have discussed this at length and it is something we really would consider.

we have quite a while to go yet as we are late 40s but this country is crippling in so many ways.

I have a business and this last year with government changes,cost of living and just general being robbed blind one way or another it’s been a year of stress to be honest and it shouldn’t be like that but if you aren’t a chain or big corporate you stand no chance here anymore.
they don’t want the small people to be successful all they are interested in is lining their own pockets.

our people in charge get away with every type of fraud possible on a daily basis they just don’t even bother to hide it anymore and we all just float along with it

the mood in this country is generally oppressive and people are pissed off and miserable which has a knock on effect.
and yes the entitlement is absolutely shocking here.

I dis agree with people saying the grass isn’t always greener.

we’ve travelled and were in a European country recently and within half an hour of being there we noticed what a difference in peoples attitudes it was crazy

the locals all worked together within their community to create clean safe areas,most of the businesses were independents,we saw one chain coffee shop on the whole island.

we didn’t see one homeless person or gangs in the streets and when speaking to locals were told how their system is very different to ours and it works.

they have a better work life balance so people feel less stressed.

that’s how it should be.

this country just wants to keep taking and providing fuck all for it.

we are meant to be a rich country but the poverty here is unreal and the sheer amount of food banks and children living in hell should not be happening.

people are dying because our nhs has collapsed

seeing elderly people on trollers in corridors for 12 plus hours waiting to be seen in a and e to me is the worst it can be and don’t even get me started on the lack of any mental health provision here.

im not surprised our suicide rate is so high as a country.

but still it carries on

i say go for it op

Absolutely agree.

Canada is fiercely expensive. Despite the amount of land they have property prices are extortionate. Much more extreme weather, some parts will hit mid forties in the summer and minus 20 in winter, so consider that for your energy bills/quality of life. Many Canadians i know are unable to go outside for several days in a row due to weather. Personally that would drive me nuts.

Much of Europe is only going to get hotter as climate change intensifies so same issue as above.

Not saying don't do it but definitely don't think other countries have it peachy. There are 5 countries considered the safest in the world (atm) from climate change and the UK is one of the them.

I have thought about it.

I think what I feel the most is a disconnect between my personal values and the majority of people in the UK. I find a lot of people in real life, not deep thinkers, often tribal in their allegiances without really questioning the reasons for situations, like to moan rather than working towards solutions, sense of entitlement, no humility.

I would look to move somewhere where at least a substantial minority of people have an positive attitude.

I think Canada is quite hard to get into these days. My brother emigrated over there for work 20 years ago and it was relatively straightforward to get dual citizenship. He was saying a lot of Americans are trying to move over to Canada and are shocked that they're being refused entry.

I do think the UK has dropped the ball on ensuring we have opportunities for home grown industry (the fault of both blue and red governments over the decades). There was a period where people were choosing not to work or work fewer hours because they were better off claiming benefits. That was never the purpose of welfare and should never have been an option, but now that genie is out of the bottle, people expect the state to keep providing more and more.

My DH is keen to leave the country and I would consider it, as I don't see life in the UK improving any time soon. We're struggling to find anywhere else which doesn't have similar issues or worse and where we would meet the entry criteria.

It's called late stage capitalism, and the only way we can fix it is higher taxes, which I'm all for, to have better services. You can't complain about declining NHS and Education services and then say 'i've paid my taxes and don't want to support anyone anymore, I'm off'. That attitude is the problem, that it is people who are struggling that are draining resources. They aren't, it's the wealthy minority that are. I think you'll find it's the same in Canada. Unless you go and live off grid somewhere. That would be my choice.

I think it's always valuable to live in different countries and experience different ways of living. Even moving to countries with worse infrastructure or with less wealth is valuable so I would say go for it. The UK will always be there if you want to return a few years down the line. Returning isn't failure.

I grew up in Sweden, left in my early 20s and spent over 2 decades abroad living in 4 different countries. Each one taught me something, each one brought experiences that I couldn't have had if I had just stayed in Sweden. Now in my mid-40s I have returned to Sweden and I appreciate it in a way I could have never done had I not left.

The UK is definitely going through a rough patch at the moment, moreso than many other Western countries in my opinion, and I was very happy to leave after brexit as I could foresee that it could only go this way. I think you will probably miss it after a while, especially the people, but that is perhaps what you need right now to be able to appreciate it. Sometimes a bit of distance is needed.

a friend recently moved to Canada with a great job, and is struggling with the cost of living there a lot.

Then do it...

But you might realise that the grass is not always greener.

Canada is very expensive to live in.

You need a visa to be able to live and work in other countries, including Europe after Brexit.

If you don't speak the language as well you will struggle with all the admin and daily life.

I have lived in three different countries so I am not suggesting that you don't do it, but do it with some proper research and without expecting that everything will be wonderful if you relocate.

Everywhere has good and bad points.