to ask how you would stop companies and investors leaving the UK?

If its a simple sounding as above, why aren't we doing it?

We aren't a good place to invest and no companies are coming to save us with offers of jobs. Where it seems to be heading is automation and AI which will drive some growth to keep us bumbling along.

I wasn't taking about the salaries of people who work for multinationals, but the tax these corporations provide to the Treasury. In the case of Amazon, for example, they paid £18.7mn in corporation tax in 2023. But that was on revenues of £6.9bn - a tax rate of 0.27%. They always quote a far higher tax contribution, but that includes VAT, which people would pay anyway whether they bought their goods from Amazon or anyone else. Amazon earns a vast amount from UK consumers, but shifts its profits to Luxembourg. How is that fair?

This. If you have money you can live anywhere. What the fuck is here for them anymore? Hated for paying huge amounts into the system for many people who chose not to work. Their success should be celebrated not envied.

It all depends what people class as "fair". The water thing fair enough, because it's taxpayer subsidies. But I don't think that means all dividends and capital gains should be super taxed.

A multinational would get a salary in the 100s of millions? Probably not. They'd have assets equating that, probably after running a successful business.

As for non-doms, I mean why sure why would you want all Ur global income taxed here as well.

I would reverse the increase to employers’ national insurance contributions for a start, and reverse the recent changes that were introduced to non doms.

For what or who? For a multinational, earning 100s of millions in the UK but registered for tax somewhere else? For the shareholders of Thames Water, taking their bonuses from a £3bn public subsidy? For an SME employing 15 people? For a non-dom, enjoying all the pleasures of London and an expensive tax accountant? For someone earning 40k in a standard 9-to-5? Fair taxation rates should ensure that public services work and the neediest are looked after.

What do you think is a fair top tax rate?

"minimal ask" lmao

All these billionaires and immensely wealthy companies have not obviously contributed to a reduction in destitution and wretchedly poor communities. Try spending a couple of afternoons in some of the town centres where I live in the north east of England - the presence of the richest people, living somewhere in the rest of the country, has made no difference whatsoever. There are jobs, of a sort, if you don't mind low-wage, precarious employment, but far too many people live right on the margin, with chronic diseases, early mortality and hopelessness. I wish wealthy corporations and individuals were taxed a little more to spread the nation's assets a bit further - if they are so offended by that minimal ask, they can sod off and buy an estate in Switzerland.

@DonnaHadDee

We can, and hopefully will, do much better. It starts with education and training our people.

Nail on the head. STEM and technical/manual skills is the future. We need to downscale the "soft" university degrees (yes, still essential, but we don't need too many who never actually work in their field). Massive improvement in STEM at ALL levels of education, secondary through to FE through to HE and restore adult education. Yes, to training in manual/technical skills, trades, etc., but also investment in those industries to weed out the "male" attitudes and make them more female friendly. And yes, incentives/subsidies/grants for employers to take on youngsters on trainee schemes, apprenticeship schemes, etc., even more importantly out in the regions away from the prosperous London/SE areas.

With the advent of AI, "soft" skills, office work, admin work, etc is going to be adversely affected far more than skills in "making and doing" things like science, manual/trades skills, etc.

My perspective would be very biased based on my experience. I've worked in software development for many well known tech firms for 25+ years. My DH has a small business (medical and SW) that has has been running for almost 20 years.

There is no quick fix, but there are a few glaring weakness and areas in which we could do better, and I believe there would be huge payback in the medium term.

1. Encourage studies in STEM area. Make is MUCH cheaper for students to get degrees in these areas. Look to countries like Germany, Ireland, etc. I worked for 12 years in Ireland. There was an abundance of well educated hard working engineers (our top Uni produce some better students, but not enough of them), both Irish and non-Irish coming through the education system there.

2. We also need a better system for trades people (electrical, plumbing, mechnics, etc.) They should be more of them, better trained and it should an attractive career choice, as in Germany and Switzerland.

3. More consideration for regional development. Everything is so biased towards the south east (where I now live and work). I won't go in to the challenges of DH experience, but outside south east it is much more difficult.

Brexit, but that goes without saying, and will be reversed in time if that is what the public wants. We can, and hopefully will, do much better. It starts with education and training our people.

https://paragraph.com/@hagaetc/norway-shrugged

Recently, my story as a Norwegian entrepreneur facing an unrealized gains wealth tax bill many times higher than my net income went viral, amassing over 100 million views on X. A few years ago I publicly called out that this tax is both impossible-to-pay and nonsensical, but no politician would listen. So I made the difficult decision to leave my home country. I still don’t know how I was supposed to pay the tax, but I recently found myself plastered on the "Wall of Shame" at the Socialist Left Party's offices.

Change the government. Not sure who to as they are all bastards, but Labour are awful and disincentivise any business or individual from making money. Rich people are openly despised by this government so if I were AZ, yes I’d bugger off abroad.

The EU were closing a lot of tax loopholes. That's why Farage and his multi millionaire cronies want to break it up.

@spoonbillstretford

I'd work on harmonising tax rates across the world, increasing financial controls and making financial systems transparent so that it is much harder to hide money or where you got it from.

Good luck trying to persuade the Cayman Islands, Isle of Man, Panama, etc to give up their tax haven status and start charging the same tax as other countries! They're not going to give it up as it's their main source of wealth. You'd have to massively incentivise them (i.e. grants. subsidies, brown envelopes etc) to comply or invade/nuke them!!

@Havanananana

Lots of small shops and other businesses went to the wall two or three decades ago with the advent of out of town retail and huge supermarkets that sell everything. The ones that the likes of Amazon have killed off were only hanging by a thread anyway.

Likewise pubs that have seen drastic reductions in turnover now that people buy their booze in bulk at supermarkets.

So I think you can go back to the 80s and 90s to see where the rot started for smaller businesses, like shops, cafes, pubs, etc.

Amazon is actually "helping" a lot of small businesses to survive and grow because they can use the "fulfilled by Amazon" service where Amazon hold their stock and deal with deliveries/returns, etc, thus saving the business in rent and staff and the costs of their own websites. I've got a fair number of small businesses using "fulfilled by Amazon" as their main sales channel that wouldn't survive if they relied on their "shop front" or other sales channels.

The US poverty rate fell as well. The middle class improved

So was the German economy in the late 1930s. It's not all about economic growth at all cost.

You do realise the US economy was booming from January 2017 to December 2019

Well most move because they get given handouts or can employ really cheap labour - so pay them seems to be the only option

Accept that you can't stop everyone leaving.

A lot of people leaving will be back, they are people who move around regularly and don't feel attached to any particular country.

The very top hardly pay any tax as it doesn't matter where they live, their tax affairs are offshore in a tax haven.

I'd work on harmonising tax rates across the world, increasing financial controls and making financial systems transparent so that it is much harder to hide money or where you got it from.

I'd invest hugely in infrastructure and follow through on that investment, rather than as the last government did, making policy by announcement and never follow through on it.

I'd invest heavily in skills and education and mental health - particularly further education and skills in the age 14 to 25 age group and early years and give a lot more help to parents - early invention targeted at those needing it.

Basically be like a Nordic country and not the US.

The tax burden increasing a lot was due to the mass spending in the pandemic. Of course they needed to realise taxes.

I didn't like Liz Truss at all and always preferred Rishi Sunak.

Perhaps but there is the option of a CU, even some sort of SM membership... then there is EFTA, an organisation the UK helped to form.

But atm no one is looking at any of these

Lazy thinking i'm afraid....

Brexit, Liz Truss both had a bigger impact, gilts went from 1.8% to 4.5% that trebled our borrowing costs and it hasn't gone back down either.

Tories took borrowing from 65% in 2010 to 88% pre pandemic.

The country was hardly stella in 2020 was it?

All of this is relevant to why people leave/fail to invest.

absolutely no confusion here, I'm completely aligned with what you're saying.

It's about investments and corporation tax though which is relevant to location