to ask how you would stop companies and investors leaving the UK?

But my point is who is "us". If we are talking about people working illegally, which is what I was, them its not the case of poor exploited British person on the one hand and illegal immigrants working illegally for far more than they can earn in their home country without paying tax and sending it home.on the other.
For someone to work illegally it means: someone is paying them cash in hand for building work etc
Someone is buying cheap cigarettes from Romania. Someone is buying cannabis grown by a Vietnamese kid or cocaine smuggled in by Albanians. Someone is paying some poor Chinese woman for sex behind their wifes back. Odds on those people are British. Some of them will even be angry at immigrantion levels. But they are as much part of the problem. They might not know their builder wants cash in hand because his staff aren't working legally. But they will know it's to bypass tax services. So maybe British people are also exploiting this country?

@Namitynamename or they exploit us, get paid far more than in their home country, live in unregistered hmo and send money home where they can far more than for their money.

A bit like us looking Arab States for cash and great pay whilst holding our noses

So that's the only reason it's bad? Cash in hand and not declaring earnings is fine if you are here legally? Then why bring up them not paying tax at all?

@Alexandra2001 you do know that your experience of one person is what's called anecdotal evidence, definitely still valid but

Because you and she are happy you may not realise that actually many of us having been waiting years for help and are still waiting

Sometimes they use someone else's NI number. In which case they would pay tax under that number.
Sometimes they work under the table (and are often exploited). In which case they don't pay tax but the people paying them cash in hand already know that.

I think both of these are issues and need dealing with. But the second in particular only happens because people (real British taxpayers) are happy to accept it in exchange for cheaper cigarettes, cheap labour etc. It's not just a immigrant problem

They are here illegally.

Whose paying builders to work cash in hand? People like that are very happy to help someone (British or immigrant) avoid paying tax in exchange for a cheaper job. Are they not part of the problem as well?
Also, when a rich person evades/avoids tax its used as a reason to lower taxes as clearly the tax is oppressively high. But when a (immigrant) builder does, it's proof they don't want to contribute to society
Shouldn't you be celebrating their willingness to integrate with British culture.

Starmer and Reeves' handling of the economy is a total car crash compared to Sunak and Hunt

Nope, not funding public sector pay rises, not funding compensation scandals and finally, unfunded tax cuts.... was it £20 billion of NI cuts? all unfunded....

...done to screw up Labour or rather the UK ie you and me....

Plus, they decimated UK defence forces, at a time when spending should have been increasing.... they went into the last GE promising to slash UK defence spending... that really should blow your mind!!

No twisting etc....

My point seems to have gone over your head....

I'm well aware that Govts will twist facts, Lab and Tory.... BUT my DD has seen her dept's waiting lists go from 22 weeks 6 months ago, to 4 weeks now.... thats not on a spread sheet, its real... & its not down to Tory policies...

Also, I don't hold to one party or personality like you "appear" too.

Indeed, around 50 or 60% of what Starmer has done, i don't agree with but i will not praise the Con's for things they fucked up in office and then v slightly unfucked towards the end of their tenure, especially when the Tories blame them for things they did whilst in office.

The millionaires that are leaving are the liquid millionaires/high net worth individuals, each year in greater numbers. Tax Justice has made this exodus seen irrelevant by 1, only counting those that have left in one year, and 2, including those with wealth tied up in assets such as property in their definition, distinct from HNWI. Until 2016 the U.K. attracted more HNWI than it lost, but since then there has been a net outflow.

The U.K. has one of the highest rates of wealth flight in the world, if not the highest. Investment into the U.K has also declined significantly (what the recent articles touting the city of London having the highest rates of foreign investment neglected to mention is that this is still a 30% decrease from the previous year).

@Alexandra2001
Sunak introduced policies which halved migration. Fact. Twist and squirm as much as you like, its still a fact. I am happy to credit Labour for continuing with those policies. It's the only sensible thing they've done.

Starmer and Reeves' handling of the economy is a total car crash compared to Sunak and Hunt.

Sunak also created more NHS appointments than Starmer has in the same period. Have a look at the figures, it will blow your mind.

Based on 1 or 2 months figures.... as the BoE pointed out, the falls to GDP and the increase in inflation were already built in.... if you look at the figures, it had been steadily rising!

On migration, i don't really see why credit should be given to the Govt that increased it from around 200k to 1m.... many of whom were dependents, so will not be in any shape or form net contributors.

Considering so many pro Tory posters are against most forms of migration, strange praise is offered up to Sunak.

Figures are available as are the policies which lead to the reduction. It’s easy to find and see why the numbers reduced, look at visa changes.

We’re in negative growth for last two monthly announcements so we’ll see how Labour deal with that.

Fastest growing economy is true. Inflation back to normal is true though.

Under his watch, he was also chancellor prior to this, rose to 650k in 2022, in 2023.... was 1m.....

Now, under Labour, its below 500k....

Not really sure why you re arguing against, the figures are easily available.....

Again, funny how anything bad is on Labour.... anything good, must be a previous Tory measure....

...as seen with inflation or GDP figures, must be all down to Labour.... nothing to do with the previous Govt.... oh no!

Why should i give credit to the Tories when all pro tory supporters fail to accept that they handed Labour a very bad economic legacy, not least on having to fund they NI cuts, which Hunt announced but did not budget for? its all "fastest growing economy and lower inflation"

Thank you.
Sunak became PM in 2022. He wasn't PM pre pandemic so the 200K figure posted by the pp is not true. Agreed?

he introduced measures that took immigration from 200k to 1m

Sunak/Cleverly then introduced measures, kept by the current government, which have successfully reduced immigration. I thought we had agreed on that fact yesterday as you were not disputing the numbers, but questioning the efficacy?

estimates from the Office for National Statistics suggest that total net migration was 431,000 in 2024. This figure represents around half of the level recorded in the year ending June 2023, when net migration peaked at a historical high of 906,000, but is above pre-pandemic estimates of between 200,000 and 300,000 (Figure 2).

https://migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/resources/briefings/long-term-international-migration-flows-to-and-from-the-uk/

Do you have any evidence that immigration was at 200k under Sunak's premiership? It was at a record high when he came to office in 2022.

I know a few who came over on student visa for sham courses. Overstayed and are now builders

Surely thats down to us, not enforcing the law? something that Labour are at least starting to do....

I hope you've reported them???

btw agree with you on Sunak and green roll backs.

So he introduced measures that took immigration from 200k to 1m but then introduced ones that reduced it to 500k and thats seen by some as a "success"

Anyway, the reduction in immigration is down to Labour, they ve been in for 12montths and anything bad that has happened is down to them, equally anything good is also on them too......

Why do you ignore the fact that they are here illegally. If they send money back that's money leaving the UK economy and going elsewhere. If they spend it here that money is recirculated here.

Net contribution isn’t determined by how people use their post tax income.

Do people working here illegally actually pay tax? Is it even possible? I assume they'd not have an NI number

The naivety!

You said they were contributing to the economy - if they're sending most money abroad then they're not spending it here so highly unlikely to be a net contributor.