to ask how you would stop companies and investors leaving the UK?

@jaws33 sorry you've lost me.

I see no evidence that the UK population hates millionaires per se. On the contrary, many people seem to be in thrall to money and those who flaunt it. I doubt that any millionaire or billionaire gives any thought to what the ordinary man or woman in the street thinks of them, because they rarely meet them.

What is disliked is the access to politicians that the millionaires seem to have that other people don't have. Whether it is a fast-track for the well-connected to supply PPE (any sign yet of a resolution to the Baroness Bra affair and the millions "earned" on PPE alleged to be useless?) or the money donated to political parties or paid to lobbying firms in order to promote the interests of the wealthy, two-tier Britain clearly exists, and policies over the years have favoured those with money.

What is also disliked is that in a country where millions of people are on the poverty line, the millionaires use their influence to promote economic theories that have been proven to be false and directly detrimental to the population in general. Stealing vital utilities and infrastructure from the nation through privatisation and then loading them with debt has had appalling economic and enviromental consequences for the general public. Brexit promises were utterly false. The "Free Market" does not exist because the rich and powerful make sure that the market is rigged in their favour, and it only provides that which is profitable rather than what is actually needed. "Trickle-down" economics is nonsense - after someone has consumed all that they can, they don't continue to consume but instead look for opportunities to invest and grow their surplus money (or ways of hiding it from the taxman).

I just chose the Tax Justice Network article as it was written clearly; I first saw it reported in Private Eye a while back.

@mutinyonthetwix I didn't say otherwise?

And you don't think Tax Justice Network might have a vested interest in what they say?

Working in the IT industry, I know of three HNW individuals who have decided in the last year to leave the UK. Multimillion £ homes on the market. All have lived here happily since making their money in the 90s. Now they are off.

Back to the original question about listing…. Part of the problem is that the London markets are illiquid because there has been such a large capital outflow over the last 5-10 years. As such London valuations are lower than the equivalent on other exchanges. Even small caps are looking at moving to non U.K. exchanges like Euronext or the German Entry Standard. The solution is to deal with the harm that Brexit has done to the City, whether it is exchange cooperation, clearing, etc.

This problem has not been made by one year of Labour, it is the direct impact of reduced European (and hence global because many deals were EU wide and we left them and didn’t replace with our own) cooperation and integration in the financial markets.

Good to see someone bringing actual facts to a discussion

Agree and I do wonder why people don’t get this very basic maths. The saying cutting their nose off to spite their face comes to mind.

Exactly. They pay far more tax than we ever will. If they left we’d be in the shit.

So they are scummy and psychopath's ? This is part of the problem with the constant throw away name calling. The more wealthy pay their taxes just as everyone else does. Yes. There is tax avoidance and fraud but that isn’t exclusive to the super wealthy as we’ve seen in cases in the papers. The hate is pathetic

AstraZeneca is Swedish-British rather than a purely British company, and its major markets are the USA and the EU, so it is going to list where the major markets are, partcularly since the UK left the EU.

TUI is German and has been for decades. The London listing was as a result of historical mergers with Thos. Cook and Thomson, but the HQ has always been in Hanover or Berlin and the company's major markets are the EU countries as well as the UK.

ARM was sold to SoftBank of Japan in 2016, meaning that there were no longer any shares to list anywhere. Conservative chancellor Phillip Hammond approved of the deal, mistakingly believing that the UK would benefit. Years later when SoftBank decided to offer some shares to the open market, it decided to list in New York.

What is "Invidia"? If you mean Nvidia, a company that was looking to invest in ARM, this is an American company that has never been listed in the UK.

I think the full implications are not just about tax revenue. But creating a culture of preventing tax avoidance. Trump will only last 4 years, and hopefully so will the tariffs. But if the rest of the big markets can get their shit together, that could last a while.

I will admit I know very little about it though!

It goes both ways though, which I imagine is part of the problem.

The very rich that I know look down on people who earn minimum wage and assume that they’re lazy, incompetent losers. Have seen this attitude an awful lot - anyone can strike it rich if they just work hard enough (from someone who inherited millions). This attitude spawns the returning attitude that these rich people, racing to set their businesses up on foreign soil to take advantage of low tax rates to avoid paying yet still benefit from gaining business here.

I’m sure I read about Jk Rowling, who is one of the UK’s top tax payers, say that whilst she has stupidly high tax bills it’s a privilege to be able to pay them.

Some wealthy people are decent and happy to pay their way, some are greedy psychopaths and give others a bad name.

I’m afraid every very wealthy person leaving to avoid taxes are part of the greed. Then it’s all blamed on disabled people anyway, not scummy people who run away in order to hoard their wealth.

the whole jist behind Trumps tariffs were to stop digital taxes such as these. Nothing can stop him doing it. It’s shitty, but the tariff will hurt the economy much more than is raised in DST. You have to think through the full consequences of every tax policy, not just go with what seems fair if you want to maximise tax take.

Rejon the EU.
And wages. I read somewhere ages ago that even at top level jobs the UK is far behind other countries. As a result the really talented people in finance and industry are moving country for better paid jobs and better standards of living.

....

That’s a rude comment and as such demeans all credibility. Of note. I get my stats from the ONS.

Check out the Global Minimum Corporation Tac Rate. This is already happening

You need to stop getting your “stats” from GB News.

I’d join with many other countries (the EU would be nice but not holding my breath) and work on saying that companies and people can’t make money in ANY countries without paying a decent amount of tax in that country. The Canadians are trying it with their digital tax but can’t get it off the ground because the Americans are shitty, money-grubbing bullies.

Everyone needs to stand up to people who make money and don’t pay taxes.

Can anyone really see that happening any time soon and if they can it won’t be soon enough. Once businesses and individuals have left it’s unlikely they’d move back again. Why bother.

The country won’t cope without them. Just check out the stats.

Rejoin the European Union.

Hi Rachel! 👋👋

A great example. But when they’ve all left you might have to sell that tiny violin. I’ll be taking my viola with me

This thread is an excellent example of why the wealthy might choose not to settle in the UK. The utter loathing for wealthy people - who pay all tax due as much as the next person - is plain to see.