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Original poster

to ask how you would stop companies and investors leaving the UK?

335 replies

LargeDeviation · 09/07/2025 14:39

AstraZeneca (the UK's most valuable company) has said they are thinking of delisting from the London Stock Exchange with a view to list in America. Other companies like Invidia, TUI, have also delisted. ARM is of course another one that got away.

At the same time, billionaires and centimillionaires are leaving the UK at the greatest rate ever.

Each delisting leads to redundancies or lower future growth. Each billionaire lost needs the equivalent of thousands of median income taxpayers to make up the tax lost.

What would you do to stop the rot? My solutions:

  1. Incentivise listings: Allow extremely large bonuses and executive remuneration as long as they are tied to long-term performance. Remove stamp duty on shares. Bring back reduced oversight for AIM etc so small companies can easily list. Actively invest government funds in high-tech incubator companies (as long as it's done by the likes of the Vaccine Taskforce, not by idiot civil servants whose idea of good governance was to try to obstruct the OneWeb investment).

  2. Incentivise share ownership in UK companies. Reduce dividend taxes. Revive the idea of the British ISA from Jeremy Hunt. Introduce low long-term capital gains tax rates (as many other countries have) to encourage long-term investing. Simply cutting Cash ISA allowances won't help.

  3. Encourage entrepreneurs and the rich to come to Britian rather than leave. Reverse the non-dom changes. Large increases in IHT allowances, cut the top rate of income tax. These tax cuts can be conditional on providing a large number of jobs to British workers to make them politically palatable.

  4. Cut corporation tax back to 20%. Sunak made a huge error in increasing corporation tax.

  5. Ditch the Rayner changes which makes Britain even more uncompetitive.

Of course Labour won't do any of the above (or even acknowledge that companies/investors leaving the UK is a problem)...

OP posts:
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Original poster
LargeDeviation · 10/07/2025 10:50

Havanananana · 09/07/2025 17:25

@nearlylovemyusername

So you think that Osborne, Hunt, Kwarteng, and Sunak did a great job during their 14 years in power?

A bunch of incompetents wedded to economic theories that have long-since been debunked. A group who somehow managed to increase public borrowing by trillions while at the same time overseeing a decline in vital public services and national infrastructure. A party that decided that leaving the EU would result in greater prosperity when in fact it has meant a 4% loss of GDP - or almost £100bn a year for the last 9 years. At least the pro-European Hammond had the decency to resign rather than back Johnson's Brexit delusions, and the likewise pro-European Javid resigned rather than have policy dictated to him by the unelected Cummings.

Osborne: broadly good, though with some appalling policies on capital investment.

Sunak: middling during the pandemic. Furlough and COVID loans were far too generous. Won the argument against the final lockdown which gave a huge boost versus the alternative scenario. 25% corp tax terrible and one of the root causes of corporate exodus. Full expensing was good but only a partial mitigation.

Kwarteng: appalling, of course. Had good ideas in isolation but ignored what it would do to debt.

Hunt: Did well to stabilise after the Truss/Kwarteng disaster but didn't really have time to do much else. Pandering to Labour on non-doms was a mistake.

OP posts:
CurtsyFriends · 10/07/2025 10:41

Surely if you level out tax so that everyone pays 20% it would be a net win? Obviously remove the tax for the very low earners as it is now. But 20% of £millions is much better than 40% of £0

Or incorporate tax breaks that are linked to wages under say £50k a year with those on the lowest wage brackets creating a bigger tax break for the company. That way the company would pay less tax and the lower earners would get paid a hell of a lot more. Win win all round. The lower earners now get paid a decent wage and in turn are able to buy more goods and services putting money back into the economy.

Original poster
LargeDeviation · 10/07/2025 10:40

Havanananana · 09/07/2025 16:07

I see no evidence that the UK population hates millionaires per se. On the contrary, many people seem to be in thrall to money and those who flaunt it. I doubt that any millionaire or billionaire gives any thought to what the ordinary man or woman in the street thinks of them, because they rarely meet them.

What is disliked is the access to politicians that the millionaires seem to have that other people don't have. Whether it is a fast-track for the well-connected to supply PPE (any sign yet of a resolution to the Baroness Bra affair and the millions "earned" on PPE alleged to be useless?) or the money donated to political parties or paid to lobbying firms in order to promote the interests of the wealthy, two-tier Britain clearly exists, and policies over the years have favoured those with money.

What is also disliked is that in a country where millions of people are on the poverty line, the millionaires use their influence to promote economic theories that have been proven to be false and directly detrimental to the population in general. Stealing vital utilities and infrastructure from the nation through privatisation and then loading them with debt has had appalling economic and enviromental consequences for the general public. Brexit promises were utterly false. The "Free Market" does not exist because the rich and powerful make sure that the market is rigged in their favour, and it only provides that which is profitable rather than what is actually needed. "Trickle-down" economics is nonsense - after someone has consumed all that they can, they don't continue to consume but instead look for opportunities to invest and grow their surplus money (or ways of hiding it from the taxman).

Show quote history

Though I disagree with many things in your post, I agree that fraud (and crime more generally) should be investigated much more vigorously.

Also I agree that with water companies in particular, the government seems unwilling to let shareholders get wiped out and bondholders take the hit. It also seems to me that the privatisation was extremely badly drafted and poorly enforced. Largely the fault of the Conservatives but Labour aren't exactly grasping the nettle.

OP posts:
Alexandra2001 · 10/07/2025 10:38

nearlylovemyusername · 10/07/2025 10:34

Yes they do, but

IRS releases tax inflation adjustments for tax year 2025 | Internal Revenue Service

Max tax rate is 37% on income over $609k pa for a single person. And there are plenty of deductions.
No IHT for estates below $13m.
Which tax regime would you prefer as a high earner?

And there are treaties with most countries which spare you from double taxation.

Show quote history

You have to add in the huge cost of health insurance to US levels of taxation.

& the USA has eye watering levels of debt too.

nearlylovemyusername · 10/07/2025 10:34

suburberphobe · 09/07/2025 23:48

Doesn't America make Americans pay taxes wherever you are?

Yes.

Yes they do, but

IRS releases tax inflation adjustments for tax year 2025 | Internal Revenue Service

Max tax rate is 37% on income over $609k pa for a single person. And there are plenty of deductions.
No IHT for estates below $13m.
Which tax regime would you prefer as a high earner?

And there are treaties with most countries which spare you from double taxation.

Original poster
LargeDeviation · 10/07/2025 10:34

Buggabootwo · 09/07/2025 15:55

Back to the original question about listing…. Part of the problem is that the London markets are illiquid because there has been such a large capital outflow over the last 5-10 years. As such London valuations are lower than the equivalent on other exchanges. Even small caps are looking at moving to non U.K. exchanges like Euronext or the German Entry Standard. The solution is to deal with the harm that Brexit has done to the City, whether it is exchange cooperation, clearing, etc.

This problem has not been made by one year of Labour, it is the direct impact of reduced European (and hence global because many deals were EU wide and we left them and didn’t replace with our own) cooperation and integration in the financial markets.

Though EU exchanges are definitely more lively than London, the main competition is the US.

I think a lot of the issues are also cultural. We need more of a capital growth mindset amongst UK CEOs rather than focussing so much on dividends/buybacks.

In terms of government action - I would prioritise low long-term (10Y or 15Y+) capital gains rates on UK shares (listed or private) and low tax rates on long-term incentive related share options for employees/directors.

OP posts:
Original poster
LargeDeviation · 10/07/2025 10:28

Havanananana · 09/07/2025 15:39

AstraZeneca is Swedish-British rather than a purely British company, and its major markets are the USA and the EU, so it is going to list where the major markets are, partcularly since the UK left the EU.

TUI is German and has been for decades. The London listing was as a result of historical mergers with Thos. Cook and Thomson, but the HQ has always been in Hanover or Berlin and the company's major markets are the EU countries as well as the UK.

ARM was sold to SoftBank of Japan in 2016, meaning that there were no longer any shares to list anywhere. Conservative chancellor Phillip Hammond approved of the deal, mistakingly believing that the UK would benefit. Years later when SoftBank decided to offer some shares to the open market, it decided to list in New York.

What is "Invidia"? If you mean Nvidia, a company that was looking to invest in ARM, this is an American company that has never been listed in the UK.

I meant Invidior - not NVIDIA of course.

With AstraZeneca, I believe the vaccine plant fiasco (entirely Labour's doing) is the main reason for the breakdown with the UK.

On ARM - yes, this is on the Tories. They didn't have the vision to see the strategic national interest in ARM (or e.g. Deepmind etc when they were scaling up). The lack of (hands-off) government investment in strategic companies is a serious issue to me.

I definitely don't believe in private markets at all costs. I think the civil service should be kept a million miles away though.

OP posts:
Original poster
LargeDeviation · 10/07/2025 10:22

Baninarama · 09/07/2025 14:53

The idea that rich folk are leaving the UK has been widely debunked - it came from a press release put out by a firm that... helps rich folk move abroad, which is a bit like asking a car salesman if you need a new car: https://taxjustice.net/press/millionaire-exodus-did-not-occur-study-reveals/

The best thing the UK could do is rejoin the EU if it wants to stop companies listing elsewhere, but that's probably not what you want to hear...

Do you actually work with or know any HNW people? I can assure you that these people have been leaving in droves (with a massive acceleration post-Covid). Both Conservatives and Labour are culpable, together with vastly more competition in other jurisdictions via golden visas/investor incentives/low tax rates.

I voted Remain but don't think rejoining the EU would make a huge difference at this point. Only a small fraction of those who leave seem to go to EU countries.

OP posts:
EasternStandard · 10/07/2025 07:43

Hiddenmnetter · 10/07/2025 06:56

That’s a terrible plan. Manufacturing in real terms should always be rising but as a % of GDP always contracting. This means that manufacturing is being invested in, and through automation is expanding, but also allowing people to work in other jobs that result in an ever decreasing overall share of the economy.

Show quote history

It is I agree. For some reason it crops up still.

Hiddenmnetter · 10/07/2025 06:56

TheHateIsNotGood · 09/07/2025 23:59

Go back to being a manufacturing-based economy. You know like make stuff that people want and use.

Then any investors can flock to the gates wherever they are from.

A possibly naive outlook but the 'finance' industry just serves only a few very well and doesn't actually 'make' anything useful at all.

That’s a terrible plan. Manufacturing in real terms should always be rising but as a % of GDP always contracting. This means that manufacturing is being invested in, and through automation is expanding, but also allowing people to work in other jobs that result in an ever decreasing overall share of the economy.

Silsatrip · 10/07/2025 00:25

Be more attractive to companies.

MNCs can set up in Ireland - 12.5% corporation tax, access to EU market

Or set up in the UK - 25% corporation tax, no comparable free access to EU market,

Which would you go for?

TheHateIsNotGood · 09/07/2025 23:59

Go back to being a manufacturing-based economy. You know like make stuff that people want and use.

Then any investors can flock to the gates wherever they are from.

A possibly naive outlook but the 'finance' industry just serves only a few very well and doesn't actually 'make' anything useful at all.

suburberphobe · 09/07/2025 23:52

The best thing the UK could do is rejoin the EU

Good luck with that one.

Yes, I'm gutted too. I live on the continent and need a fucking ETA = like an ESTA - just to visit friends and family in UK.

suburberphobe · 09/07/2025 23:48

Doesn't America make Americans pay taxes wherever you are?

Yes.

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 23:43

And when asked who would make the best government for the UK right now, Labour led by Starmer was preferred over both a Reform government led by Nigel Farage (55 per cent vs 45 per cent) and a Conservative government led by Kemi Badenoch (52 per cent vs 48 per cent).

PregnantBarbie · 09/07/2025 22:47

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 20:53

Can you link to the poll that shows that?

Show quote history

One from January and one from four days ago. So seems a fairly enduring opinion unfortunately.

Labour's First Year In Power Seen As Worse Than Tory Predecessors

www.politicshome.com/news/article/labour-first-year-seen-as-worse-than-tory-predecessors-poll-finds

Voters believe Labour is doing worse than Tories on delivering pledges, poll finds

labourlist.org/2025/01/news-voters-believe-labour-worse-than-tories-delivering-promises/

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 22:24

nearlylovemyusername · 09/07/2025 21:12

Will Guardian do?

The charts that show just how worried Labour should be about the polls | Labour | The Guardian

Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.

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Not really. It doesn’t show the previous government doing any better than this one which is what the pp purported. We all know what the polls say about voting intention and all of us with an atom of sense know they’re meaningless four years out from an election.

Hiddenmnetter · 09/07/2025 22:09

I can’t get over op calling nvidia invidia like the largest GPU producer on the planet isn’t a relatively known brand (most every PC/Laptop with a discrete graphics card is made by nvidia these days- something like a 90% market share)

mutinyonthetwix · 09/07/2025 21:15

ghostyslovesheets · 09/07/2025 19:53

Thankfully not all rich people feel the same
patrioticmillionaires.uk

If these folk are so supportive of paying more, why are they waiting until they are legally compelled to pay extra tax? They can pay as much extra tax as they want right now voluntarily.

nearlylovemyusername · 09/07/2025 21:12

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 20:53

Can you link to the poll that shows that?

Show quote history

Will Guardian do?

The charts that show just how worried Labour should be about the polls | Labour | The Guardian

Analysis by the Guardian found Labour’s drop in the opinion polls in its first 10 months of power is the largest of any newly elected UK government in 40 years.

nearlylovemyusername · 09/07/2025 21:05

AndImBrit · 09/07/2025 20:51

That’s more true. I know anecdotally that more multi millionaires are talking about leaving than used to (but less than when Jeremy Corbyn was a threat), but for reasons more broad than tax - they often see better chances for their kids and lifestyle abroad (instead of tax being the main driver that it used to be).

Show quote history

I used to work (until last Christmas) with a lot of very wealthy people, all in senior corporate roles.

A lot of them either left in the last 12 months or are preparing to leave soon. Yes, it is a combination of many factors, it's a general societal attitude against them, and it's not going to get any better, and taxes are definitely one of the factors.

We got a sort of lucky break thanks to Trump, US used to be the top destination, not anymore, so people are reassessing their options, but they are not staying here anymore.
Which is a real shame - the ones I'm talking about are good people, very generous charity-wise, and they paid a huge amount of taxes here.

Slalomsfathoms · 09/07/2025 20:55

If this is Keir, or Rachel Reeves asking for advice, I think we all know the country is f**ked.

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 20:53

PregnantBarbie · 09/07/2025 20:47

Latest polls show that the majority of people now think Labour are handling things worse than the Tories. 😳

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Can you link to the poll that shows that?

AndImBrit · 09/07/2025 20:51

Backtothebestbits · 09/07/2025 14:58

I would question that - I heard that nobody actually knows how many are leaving the country because there isn’t the data collected to know.

Show quote history

That’s more true. I know anecdotally that more multi millionaires are talking about leaving than used to (but less than when Jeremy Corbyn was a threat), but for reasons more broad than tax - they often see better chances for their kids and lifestyle abroad (instead of tax being the main driver that it used to be).

PregnantBarbie · 09/07/2025 20:47

nearlylovemyusername · 09/07/2025 19:53

If Labour continue doing what they're doing now there will be nothing left to tax by next GE

Latest polls show that the majority of people now think Labour are handling things worse than the Tories. 😳

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