What do you think will happen to the state pension in the future?

Nail on the head. Especially that we will sleep walk into the entire welfare system failing and disappearing if we don't reform it. Same applies to the NHS - if we don't reform it to a European model, it will collapse and we'll end up with the US model instead. We really need to tackle the issues rather than hope "someone else" will deal with the problems and pay for it!

Politicians will wholeheartedly welcome strict rules- as once in place, they will stay there. Our freedom is invaluable and we should defend it. Digital IDs will be sold as a panacea for a problem to fool people. It will not make our life better, only worse.

Nudge theory, much?

I don’t think it’s a benefit. Had we paid that into a private pension, we would be entitled to it.

Yeah, you see, although I know pensions are officially defined as benefits, morally I don't agree with that classification at all because people pay in all their working lives to receive their pension. And, more generally, I think you need to keep in mind that benefits are generally only paid out to those who have paid into the system. It's how the whole system works, and in a sense you're right about entitlement - in the sense that people who have paid into the system are entitled to get something back if they need it. You actually sound like you don't approve of the core concept of the welfare state, your prerogative if that's the case, but that's the system in the country we live in and personally I'm glad there's a safety net for the most needy.

I'm not naive and am fully aware that some people game the system, but it's an awful lot harder to get benefits one isn't entitled to than you might want to acknowledge (for some people it's a push to get what they are entitled to), and imo it's unhelpful in the extreme to tar those who have paid into the system and are genuinely in need, with the same brush as the tiny minority who somehow do manage to claim benefits they aren't entitled to. And, as I say, morally I don't agree with the classification of pensions as a benefit, official or not.

The IMF can advise on a change to overall spending. It has no jurisdiction as to where those changes are made as long as the result is achieved.

IMF will insist on cuts/changes to benefits if the UK goes to them for a loan. Just look at what happened with Greece. Pension amount reduced, pension contributions increased, retirement age raised.

Politicians care very much. The IMF has no jurisdiction over where cuts are made if required, its role is to simply advise and support.

IMF technocrats care not for sacred cows.

I’d bet my house that in the event of a financial crisis pensions would be untouched. They’re a sacred cow. And if you want evidence of that just look at the confected outrage to score political points that greeted the WFA means test. And that was about £150.

With fraud and cheating abundant we need strict rules. Unfortunately many simply cannot be trusted.

The state pension is a benefit.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-10139/

As to the relevance. Both working age and pension benefits are too generous and simply unaffordable to sustain.

I’m not happy to watch our economy be destroyed through benefit addiction and a lack of work ethic.

i recognise you have worked hard all your life. However if you have made no provision and are entirely reliant on a stare pension which is widely regarded as unsustainable, you have given yourself no room to move.

Will the State Pension be reformed. Eventually yes. If done sooner the outcome might be less savage. However the welfare cut u turn in Parliment recently suggests this will be impossible. To a severe change will come on the back of a financial crisis.

Digital IDs = totalitarian society, excessive data collection, no privacy and direct route to digital slavery

My moral compass is reassured by the latest comments.

The basic rate of income tax certainly needs to rise. The tax free allowance is also far too generous. This would align with European tax levels. Perhaps we also need a minimum wage push up too.

What I would like to see is an annual taxes paid versus benefits received statement. We might need to fully digital + ID economy to achieve this. There is added benefit here from the reduction in cash in hand fraud. Perhaps reduced crime too?

Show me one single place on this thread where I have said one word about benefits. (And just in case you mean me personally by 'you want other peoples money given to you in benefits', I work and have my pension provisions sorted out, HTH.) You won't be able to because it's not what I am arguing for on this thread. You're just desperate to shoehorn a bit of good old-fashioned benefits bashing into this thread in any way you can when the topic of the thread is supposed to be what will happen to pensions, not to benefits.

I think you're being deliberately disingenuous now and that you know full well I'm saying the solution is to end the ridiculous low pay culture in this country, particularly given the current cost of living, so that people are actually able to live on, and save from, the salary they are paid; that's supposed to be the whole point ffs. It's hardly a utopian pipe dream, or at any rate it wouldn't be if the country hadn't been systematically run into the ground by decade after decade of austerity politics.

But instead of getting angry about that, you and some others on this thread are quite happy to follow the right-wing narrative that people are just feckless and workshy and somehow think it's the individual's fault that so many workplaces don't pay their employees enough to live on in the current climate, much less save for retirement. That is why many hard-working people are having to claim benefits despite working full time, because they cannot afford to live, let alone pay into a private pension. And it's really lazy and reductive (not to mention insulting) mental shorthand to assume they just aren't doing enough to improve their lot.

It's as if somehow the people to be angry with aren't the successive governments that have crippled everyone but the wealthy over the years, but the people themselves for apparently not driving themselves hard enough. It'd be start if they were simply able to earn enough to live on and save for later life, without being squeezed on one side by this country's low pay culture and on the other by the ridiculous cost of day-to-day living.

What good little self-congratulatory worker bees some people are, sitting there preaching how people just aren't trying hard enough, meanwhile those up top have them right where they want them - humble, grateful and gullible - and they can't even see it. All the thread needs now is ‘hard work never killed anyone’ and we’ll have completed the Daily Mail blind prejudice bingo card. Hooray!

And another thing these 'everyone's just workshy' types are failing to take into account is the impact on the NHS (and, yes, potentially the overall economy), further down the line, if people end up ill/disabled earlier in life as a result of excess work and stress. Although they'd probably say they should just buck up and haul themselves up by the bootstraps regardless.

I totally agree. Having everyone contribute in some way, I think would make a happier society for all. I don't understand how left-wing people can't see that it is in some people's nature to take the easier route of going on benefits - and then get stuck as if you are 40 you cant really build up a pension or save for a house.

The UK does have the balance of fairness wrong.

I don't think working is valued enough frankly. I do wonder if we all start paying more tax (not just higher earners) if people might start to take a more critical look at what you can get by not working.

Welfare system was set-up to assist those who needed help in their hour of need, and a state pension for those who have gradlfted throughout their working lives. That is the important part those that have grafted I.e those that have put in the effort.

It has morphed into a free for all for those with a slight need for all of their lives I.e no graft.

We need to get back to what it was intended for - tighten the controls (no wage top ups and state pension based on your contributory years) or replace it with a new model. Start phasing it out over the next 30 to 50 years. We need to do it now but with adequate notice.

If we do neither there will be NO welfare system for anyone.

So if hard work doesn’t suffice, you want other peoples money given to you in benefits?

Sounds fair.

I’m not against a state pension, I’m more concerned with those not working at a younger age.

Ageing takes it’s toll on our bodies and minds, few in their 70s could compete with the young or middle aged. Part time after retirement age worked for me, it topped up my very minimal state pension (I was short of contributions), and a modest occupational pension. It was a choice, based on some necessity.

Funnily enough, the people in low paid physically jobs, who a PP said should just get a second job, would more than likely physically burnout before retirement and end up on benefits anyway.

Working 2 jobs (unless both are part time, obviously) should not be the norm. May as well live in work if all you are using your house for is to sleep in.

Where did I say that this hypothetical person expected any such thing? Interesting that you automatically assumed that was what I meant, when I was actually attempting to point out that hard work doesn’t always suffice.

I would say, that society does not owe you endless amounts of welfare.

Ignoring your ridiculous second paragraph as I’m just not going to waste keystrokes, what would you say to someone who had done all the things you mention in your first paragraph (assuming they weren’t prevented by childcare requirements from things like second jobs and night school, something you conveniently didn’t bother to factor in) and was still struggling to put bread on the table. Would you call them soft, dependent and entitled?