Didn’t get promoted and am devastated - please help

I don't think sounding defensive or confrontational will help you move up. It's less about sticking up for yourself and more about learning what they were seeking that they didn't feel you were secure on yet.

So if they say: you weren't secure in this area, you could say: 'That's helpful. I felt that I learned a lot from doing X and Y which were strong steps in the right direction so how can I build on that to really secure those skills?'

The word salad is spottable because it's generic not specific. So if they say they 'just felt you weren't quite up to speed on the requisite skillsets' that's word salad as it means nothing specific. And it could be a sign that there wasn't really a good enough reason - they just didn't choose you. But if they said: 'We don't feel your Japanese is fluent enough to handle the Zoom calls with the Tokyo office, and there would be a lot more of that if you were promoted' then that's specific and something you can act on.

it is illegal to work over European directive though, although since Brexit I’m not sure if that still applies

It does. It's just called the Working Time Directive, rather than the European WTD.

There are bits you can't opt out of, but you can opt out of the 48 hour average, and I don't think I've had any job contract since it came in that didn't include an opt out clause. There are exceptions; you can't opt out in roles like airline crew or HGV drivers, and there are rules around night working, too. Plus it's an average over a number of weeks, so you can definitely work more in one week.

But anyway - take the feedback and use it, whether it's to do better next time there's an internal opportunity or to ho somewhere else where you will be appreciated/won't be blocked, whatever the issue is.

Don't argue with them. There's no point, because you need to remember it's not your view of yourself that matters, it's theirs, so your objective is not to stick up for yourself in a fight that's over, but to learn as much as you can about why they made their decision and what they think the gaps are.

Could you tell me which questions I scored down on, and what were you looking for/could I have said to have improved my answer?
What would you advise me to do so I'm in a stronger position next time?
Are there any opportunities for me to fill any gaps/gain more experience?

You say, “OK, so I already have XYZ experience. How can I build on that, and what else do I need to demonstrate, so that I am better positioned for the role in one or two years’ time?”

It depends whether someone took detailed notes throughout the interview but assuming this was the case:

1. In which area(s) did I perform less well compared to other candidates? What would you recommend I focus on in terms of addressing these gaps?
2. Were there any questions where you felt I could have provided better examples / responses based on your experience working with me? (i.e. interview technique)
3. Other candidates aside, what would have been your main concerns/reservations about me stepping up into the role?

You could position it as follows:

"Obviously I'm disappointed I didn't get the role but rather than dwell too much on that, I was hoping to get some feedback that will help me close out on any gaps or things that I should do that are likely to strenghten my chances next time".

I interview people regularly mainly for internal promotions.

We never understand the people who don't ask for feedback and we really put effort into making that feedback helpful.

A lot of people end up getting the next role after closing out skills gaps etc.

Do you have a mentor or a sponsor who will support you?

Unfortunately, there are 2 occasions that really stick out in terms on unsuccessful candidates that were really just unlucky and lost out marginally. They did nothing wrong at all.

I once interviewed in March for a role and in October for a very similar role. The top 3 I interviewed in October were all stronger than the person appointed in March. Sometimes it's just a case of an exceptionally strong number of applicants and nothing more than that.

The OP has had some unpleasant responses.

I will say that leaving it several weeks between the interview and telling her she hadn’t got it was poor. It may be that the company is weirdly bureaucratic or that the senior leadership team needed to give their approval - but really? If you interview an external candidate and leave it several weeks before getting back to them, you risk them moving on and taking a different role. Chances are that they had made the offers a while ago and waited until they were accepted.

So the manager’s offer of feedback - realistically, you need to take it. If he genuinely wants to help then it will be valuable. If he made the offer because - Oh shit, he still hasn’t got back to OP and she’ll be furious - it would be politically wise to be seen to be cooperative.

A few people have said he seems like a bad manager. I don’t know whether this is the case. I do know that many people are good at a specific (rather niche) thing then are expected to manage others.

Re the effort you’ve put in - it’s time for The Rules. Turn up on time, be friendly and busy, get through your work, leave on time, dress as though you have nice plans after work. Make it clear that you have a life outside work.

I know exactly how you're feeling op! This is what happened to me few months ago.

I love the company I work for and they are supportive in developing people, but as it stands at the moment there is nowhere to move within our particular team. Opportunities to move up are rare.

I've been there 10 years and in the same role for around 7 years and have glowing reviews in my appraisals every year and it is always mentioned how I am the most experienced in the team. But when it came down to it they went with someone who has been there half my time and who I initially trained! They said that everyone who went for it would have done a good job and they brought the decision down to who scored more points on the day of the interview and this person scored slightly higher than me. So they chose that over the fact I have been next to the manager building the team (from a very small team to a large) and our processes for nearly the last decade.

It totally broke me at the time and even now I am still so angry about it and am completely unmotivated within my job now.

I knew if I didn't get that promotion that it would be the final nail in the coffin for me because I just can't stay stagnant in the same role any longer. I am currently still in my team but reached out to another department who I have previously considered moving into as it had more progression options, as they need help at the moment. They are training me in multiple aspects of their department with the view that I might be able to slot in somewhere eventually. I don't know where it will take me yet but it has breathed new life into me at work, just doing something different and that im working towards a change (which will offer a lot more options).

I understand how you feel about not wanting a meeting with your manager, I am still dreading my impending 1on1 with mine despite that they already know their chance to keep me has long past, and they knew how much I needed to do something different and how much their decision has impacted me (I am close with my manager which helped me be very honest about my feelings on the matter). They are supporting me in my choice for an eventual move to the other department, as they know im just done. But I just don't want another discussion on my performance when quite frankly my years of hard work went unrecognised when it mattered the most.

As much as you don't want to (especially while the disappointment is fresh) do have a discussion with your manager. It might make your path clearer. I had 2 previous let downs before this one, this was just the last time I was willing to accept it.

I am very fortunate I do work in a company that supports career progression, but this doesn't change my feelings on being passed over for this particular promotion. I have managed to get over other let downs in the past fairly quickly, but I can't shake this one no matter how hard I try. I've just taken it as a sign that I need to take a different path.

I am a big believer in everything happens for a reason, and in the thick of it that is really hard to see. But I truly think I am now on the path I should be on.

Sorry that was really long 😳 but this is still very fresh in my mind!

Take the feedback and start looking elsewhere. Also, don't be too hard on yourself - your company knows you inside out (good bits but also bad), but they're only seeing the good bits of the external candidates as they barely know them. It's a lot to compete with. Often, the new hire turns out to be a lot less shiny & competent than the version of themself they presented at interview...

Ugh, this happened to me once OP. Reframe the feedback in your head, look at it as a way to get knowledge to help you find a better job elsewhere, rather than an embarrassing list of your failings. And then get a job somewhere else.

Our company you often got spiked by HR who would zoom up from London with a different check list. In-house applications would be shoehorned out to fill some quota only known to them.

It's very hard when you don't get a job that you think is a shoe in. And being interviewed by people you know is also very hard
But I don't think you should just give up.
Interviewers have to be fair to everyone and it could be that although you could easily do the job and interviewed well the external candidates interviewed better and were bringing some different experience to the role. Perhaps they were already working at that level somewhere else? It might not be about you at all but about them .
You won't know unless you attend the meeting with your manager. You say you enjoy the job, don't just leave now because of this. Talk to your manager ask them what more you can do to secure promotion in the near future .

I understand and am sorry you've had experiences that have led you to that, but longer-term/overall it's surely better to focus on yourself and own your agency, not have to raise yourself up by denigrating others. Self-worth and belief isn't so strong or genuine if it's only built on the idea that others are flawed. That tends to lead to people going from the OP's extreme of seeing themselves as failures to the other extreme of blaming someone else and not acknowledging our own issues to work on. The reality is usually in the middle and takes more nuance. Like I say, part of working at senior level needs an ability to see the bigger picture and not take things so personally, either in upset or in anger.

Get the feedback. You never know, it might be very useful for your next job.

PS. You ARE young still!

A little anger for the OP might rev her engines to look for another post which is exactly what she needs to do to regain her self worth and belief in herself

This may be valid, @TrainGame, but remembering we can't always have what we want it's possible the same thing could happen elsewhere if OP focuses just on the anger rather than accepting feedback

It's never pleasant to hear we've missed the mark, but accepting it and moving on can be an important skill to develop

Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. You have a boss who is encouraging, supportive and who wants to help you progress. Turning down feedback because of your ego isn’t going to aid any career progression, whether that’s with this company or another. You’ve gained an opportunity to develop your resilience, which is much needed in a manager position.

It’s not illegal ! It depends on your specific contract.

l always had contracts based on doing a role as a professional, we didn’t get paid overtime at our scale, but if you were in that level of organisation it goes in territory to work what’s needed to get job done

it is illegal to work over European directive though, although since Brexit I’m not sure if that still applies

in my 40 year career I only ever got paid overtime once. Both for major projects where over a short number of weeks I was literally working 6 and 7 days per week and over EU directive. I pushed to get my team paid overtime, and then said since they were paying them OT they needed to pay me too! I had to travel a lot oversees, in the ladt year I worked I spent just 109 nights in my own bed at home including my weekends and holidays. It wasn’t illegal but it did burn me out and result in my very early retirement!

I don’t disagree that in principle people should be paid their hourly rates for exactly hours worked, but it has never been case in some roles. that’s a ideal that’s never ever been the case in this country. Many roles even in public sector like nurses also work extra for free where there’s an emergency. Care workers don’t get paid for travel time between clients even though sane people would agree that’s part of job (have they won the case that they must be paid yet?)