To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

No it isn't, as all people with DSDs are one sex or the other.

What third sex do you think people with DSDs are?

I mean, this is factually incorrect given that intersex people exist.

OP is not concerned with her son being gender critical, and says it is for him to make his own mind up on that.

She is concerned that, in his head, he is lumping together his skepticism of "gender identity" with his views on the validity of same-sex attraction. I.e. that his views on the T (doesn't believe in it) are driving his attitudes towards the L, G & B (now doesnt believe in those, either - other than as a conscious choice people make).

I'm sure most people in this thread acknowledge that it is possible (indeed, common) to be gender critical and not be homophobic, so the validity-or-not of his apparent gender critical views are irrelevant - the OP gave context on what she thinks is the root cause - him (as an 11 yr old) mistakenly conflating two different issues because of their inclusion in the acronym.

I'd expect people to say "see, this is why "T" doesnt belong in the acronym and its unhelpful to include it there, tell your some that [....]". That would be relevant - debating the merits of T as an ideology is not.

❤️

Ok. So you have no explanation, point, argument or anything?

I wonder how you came to your current position without understanding why you think what you think? It’s quite bizarre.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject - Winston Churchill
General summary:
“This quote emphasizes that a fanatic's unwavering commitment to their beliefs prevents them from engaging in meaningful discussion or considering alternative viewpoints. They are unable to re-evaluate their position or acknowledge the validity of other perspectives, and they also refuse to shift the focus of conversation away from their singular, often narrow, focus.”

That does seem to reflect your approach to this, yes. What a startling blast of self awareness. Despite all evidence, including the OPs posts, presented to the contrary, you continue to insist that this thread is only about some mysterious and hitherto (undefined on this thread) type of homophobia and the 11 yr old bits views absolutely definitely 100% didn’t come from the admittedly inadvertent but homophobic teachings at school.

Of course it's about homophobia! It can be about that and also about the rest of the cause especially in schools today, gay teens don't get much of a look in compared to the focus on gender identity.
Im not sure if you really don't understand me or are just being difficult.

It’s blatantly clear it’s about homophobia, the fact you want to ignore that and the impact it has on gay teens to take over and monopolise to push your cause using a less than tenuous link is pretty shameful.

Quite.

And her subsequent post confirmed that

a) she believes that her son’s views on sex and gender are ‘lumped together’ with the ‘homophobia’.

And b) she isn’t even sure what her sons father actually said to him, whereas we know that the school is teaching him very confusing things about people changing sex (or gender or whatever new and slippery lie the trans activists have come up with) which obviously affects the name of your sexual orientation.

Yet I have copped all sorts of abuse from some posters who claim to be against ‘homophobia’ but are perfectly happy to accept homophobia as espoused by Andrew Tate that has caused serious harm to quite a number of vulnerable young people. Like Ritchie Herron and Keira Bell for example.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject

Can you actually explain WHY you think Shedmistresses post is anti trans propaganda and not just the truth?

It would save an awful lot of repetitive posts on your part and you never know, you might even convince us if you came up with a coherent argument to support your statements.

Some evidence as to the nature of this ‘third sex’ and when it was discovered would also be helpful.

And while you’re at it, can you explain why the gender ideologists claim that ‘identity’ should supersede biological sex, even in the case of sexual orientation, is not homophobic?

I’ll go and make myself a nice cup of tea and dd has made some nice Bakewell tarts and will look forward to reading your thoughts.

I'm a bit tired of the constant complaints that this thread is "about homophobia" and nothing to do with gender identity when the first example of conversation the OP gave was around there being 2 genders.

ok.

Oh I understand it only too well.

You don't seem to understand that all humans are one of 2 sexes so not sure you are in a position to accuse someone of misunderstanding.

I understand you believe that transness is incoherent . This is simply because you don’t understand it.

Challenging your incoherence is not 'propaganda'.

You know that there are only 2 sexes.

This is anti trans propaganda. It’s a shame that this has taken over a thread about homophobia.

Homophobia is a belief that being gay is wrong , and should be changed. Where such attitudes exist they should be challenged through education and exposure to diversity.

Being trans is a real and legitimate form of human diversity. Trans people can't help who they are and deserve that their humanity, dignity and rights are upheld.

They are just male or female like everyone else

Nope

Ok come on now @Tandora . You know that men who say they are women are men. You don't think a man who has fathered children and 'transitioned' later in life suddenly becomes a third sex because he got a bit too in deep in his wife's underwear drawer.

This is ridiculous but it does underlie the extent to which the ideology has warped people's minds. Gad Sadd named it the Woke Mind Virus. He wasn't wrong.

I’m very sorry you’re upset.

If you could just explain WHY you think there is a difference between the Andrew Tate type homophobia (he seems to think men sleeping with men is wrong but also that it’s fine if one of those men identifies as a woman) and TQ+ homophobia that effectively denies that sexual orientation is based on biological sex and actually everyone needs to accept that ‘identity’ is more important than sex?

I’ve just listened to a very interesting episode 12 of the Inciteful Sisters podcast with Jo Bartosch where she mainly discusses the effects of porn on society but also looks at the similarities between Andrew Tate’s attitude towards women and homosexuality and those of Stonewall (as self appointed arbiter of all things trans and trainer of very many major organisations). You might find it answers some of your questions.

Ahh I give up.

It's a shame that this thread that was about homophobia - by which I mean actual homophobia as in a belief that being gay is wrong - had to be turned into yet another anti-trans thread. But some people are just determined to make anti-trans propaganda the entire of mumsnet. It's very upsetting.

It’s interesting to see Tandora, who speaks very energetically for the interests and desires of trans people in many many threads, be so determined to stop discussion on the causes of homophobia.

I have listened to quite a few gay men and lesbians and they are very concerned about what is being done ‘in their name’ ie the forced teaming of LGB with the TQ+. They are being asked to use their hard won gains in equality and acceptance to write a blank cheque for people to push harm to children, remove safeguards in society and even unquestioningly include the mysterious +.

Such a little symbol, so many questions. All unanswered.

So why are you posting about trans people then?

And again :).

If they aren't male or female sex, what are they then?

And what rights don't they have?

As OP observed, the force teaming of LGB (sexuality) with TQ+ (identity) has created confusion. The enforcement nature in schools of the force teaming is having a detrimental effect on the LGB, thanks to the known harms of TQ+.

Just remember, it isn’t LGB that caused violent male rapists and paedophiles to be in women’s prisons (including those with a mother and baby unit). It isn’t LGB who caused the 11 yr old girl to be sexually assaulted at knifepoint by a trans identifying male allowed to go into the ladies rely because of gender ideology. It isn’t LGB who has caused the single sex toilets in vast numbers of schools to be made mixed sex resulting in several sexual assaults and attacks on girls already. It isn’t LGB that allowed a middle aged man who identifies as a woman to wander freely around the girls changing rooms while teenagers have to strip off their swimsuits. It isn’t LGB who caused a male on the volleyball court to cause a permanent brain injury to a girl by hitting her so hard with his shot, or a female hockey player who had her teeth smashed out by a boy hitting the ball with a male strength. I could go on.

The public are gaining awareness of these issues and dislike it intensely. The forced lumping of TQ+ in with LGB is only detrimental to and against the interests of
LGB. Therefore it is homophobic.

Nice evasion of my question though.

Discussion evolves, I’ll address points as they come up whether it’s directly about the OP or not. You aren’t the thread police. Engage or don’t.

And yes, trans people are just male or female (which remains the same from birth until they die), and have the same rights as everyone else.