To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

You do not know what type of DSD this person has.

They failed two unspecified "gender tests" (presumably chromosomal) performed as part of eligibility rules for a different competition.

This person was assigned female at birth, raised female, is legally female and was eligible to participate in this sporting competition under the rules.

The vitriol thrown at this person was entirely unacceptable and shows that these types of discriminatory attitudes are not only directed a trans people, but also at people with DSDs simply because their bodies fail to conform to conventional/ social understandings of 'female' and 'male'.

He was allowed to compete simply on the basis he has a female passport - which he may have only got as he was mis-sexed at birth due to his DSD.

The rules are now changing in world boxing thankfully and mandatory sex testing is going to be introduced.

Also, why do you find it strange that “negative sweeping generalisations” aren’t allowed against gender critical feminists as a group? Why would they be?

I think all you can do is focus on listening and asking him questions. How does he know people have a choice about their sexual orientation? Can he describe what he finds so wrong about it? What does 'supporting' it even mean? And just listen, don't bother trying to convince him.

Maybe it's worth asking his dad to keep his views on the topic to himself, so your son can make up his own mind without being influenced by either of you.

Feel free to post some actual specific evidence backing up the smear you made.

If you can’t justify your attack on TT with facts, then it’s just part of a “negative sweeping generalisation” that you’ve made, isn’t it

Here’s a few things we know about Imane Khelif:

he has allegedly failed multiple sex tests, both testosterone and chromosome based

his test details were leaked and if genuine they show he is genetically male

his trainer said he was genetically male in an interview

its likely that he has 5-ARD, an entirely male DSD shared by Caster Semenya

he was going to have to prove his sex before competing in a recent tournament he had previously been looking forward to

he pulled out of said tournament at the last minute

He's a male with 5-ARD, a male specific DSD.
He failed two tests which were performed by verified labs.

He was aware of being male, and fought in the olympics because the IOC based their decision on his passport rather than his sex.

That is deception, it is cheating, and the fact that an obvious and known male was permitted to assault women on his way to the top just goes to show the rot that has affected policy and society as a result of pandering to male feelings rather than material reality.

"negative sweeping generalisations" about trans people are not allowed.
They are also not allowed against "gender critical feminists". (I find the latter very odd as a rule, but accept that those are the rules, so I will respect them).

My statement was not related to making a negative sweeping judgement against either group. My statement was about the online activities of specific organisations like transgender trend.

Sure.

Because I didn't want to trigger you and have the entire argument be about language and pronouns.

If I were in a safe space I would obviously use "she". I was trying to be respectful of your beliefs in my use of language, while still being respectful of the person in question.

I imagine that comment counted as a “negative sweeping generalisation” Tandora, which as you’ve pointed out before, you are aware are against MN guidelines.

Why are you calling him “they” then?

I mean the boxer who was assigned female at birth. Raised female. Is legally female. Who was eligible to participate in the boxing competition under Olympic rules. Who clearly has a (unspecified) DSD (having previously failed an unspecified 'gender test' for a different competition - presumably this test was chromosomal). Who was widely castigated for deception, cheating and violence simply for participating in a woman's sporting competition as they were allowed to do/

You mean the male who knew he was male, and continued to beat up women anyway?
Yes, hes a liar and a cheat.

I've written to ask for clarification as it's not clear to me why it would be ok to express the opinion that

• trans rights activists/ groups are grooming children into transition, leading to "mutilation and sterlisation",

but it's not ok to express the view that

• there are advocacy organisations who are [word I won't repeat] people online to promote transphobia.

I wasn't aware that it was against the rules to express such an opinion. It wasn't intended as a personal attack, simply my honest opinion of what is happening due to warped information being spread online by these types of organisations.

However, if it is against the guidelines to express such an opinion, I apologise to both you and Mumsnet for breaking guidelines.

I'd hazard a guess you broke the talk guidelines.

I didn’t report it as I prefer these ridiculous posts to stand but maybe it was because you accused me of sharing links that spread ‘online radicalisation’. 🤷‍♀️ when anyone (including you) can read them for themselves and deduce that that is abject nonsense.

Presumably because you made untrue and defamatory claims about the groups linked.

I'm not really sure why my post was deleted? :(

Oh @Tandora , my links are not ‘online radicalisation’ or ‘transphobic hate groups’ - honestly 🙄

I know you are VERY KEEN to stop people reading about the issues as raised by groups of parents concerned about what their children are being told (and how they are treated) in schools. The information could enlighten some in this thread who are very invested in denying that the force teaming of the TQ+ with LGB has led to issues such as OP raised.

However, in your rush to make such big accusations you missed that the first link is from the National Education Union - a very pro trans teaching union. And the link is what they are demanding kids be taught and special assemblies etc in schools - from the horses mouth so to speak. There are many many resources like this being pumped into schools.

Bright kids like OPs son who are listening and thinking about what’s being said can clearly see through the lies that the teachers are telling them and it’s causing them to reject it all. So kids expressing ‘homophobic’ views (I still think that term is way too harsh for an 11 yr old but PPs on here would have him punished severely) is down to the TQ+ contradiction.

I would strongly suggest that people read the links I posted for themselves and make up their own minds.

Scientific Journals and Books about what, clownfish?

Transphonic hate groups, give over. Wanting kids to not be mutilated and sterilised is not hate.

Do I think schools ever incentivise children into becoming trans? No I don't.

So are you denying it has ever happened? You have oversight of every school in the country? Or are you just guessing?

These websites start to tell some of the stories of what’s been happening in schools. ‘Transition’ was promoted to kids by one activist organisation in schools as a way to stop being bullied, Giving special privileges (special assemblies, access to toilets and changing rooms of the opposite sex and power to get peers into trouble for ‘misgendering’ etc) to a group of kids can’t help but incentivise people to join the group.

But sneer and dismiss - it doesn’t change what has been happening

instructions from a teaching union:

https://neu.org.uk/advice/equality/lgbt-equality/supporting-trans-and-gender-questioning-students

care.org.uk/cause/transgender/the-shocking-truth-about-what-is-being-taught-in-schools

safeschoolsallianceuk.net

www.transgendertrend.com/gender-indoctrination-schools-teenage-girls-testimony/

In terms of the hompohobia side of things, I have always had a worry that people making their sexuality a big part of their personality in a country that Is now largely very accepting of people's sexuality might cause problems and backlash further down the line. Pendulums tend to swing, and if a group seem to be 5ak8ng up a lot of space it can possibly cause resentment in groups who feel marginalised.
I am 50, and I knew that I was bisexual when I was about 10. I didn't know the name for it because there things weren't discussed then,and once the AIDS panic started, basic self preservation meant that I kept it a secret because bisexuals were a focus of prejudice from both sides.
Then, as things got more accepting, bi women were accused of jumping on the bandwagon, trying to be "trendy" etc, so once again I kept it to myself.
I am not saying that any of this is a good thing,but to this day, I could count the number of people who know I am bisexual on one hand and those people are nearly all ex partners. Other people don't need to know. Secretly, I have always worried that the Gay community has been taking up more space than we were entitled to, when flying brlow the 3adar may have veen safer. People are slways going to find some reason to distrust people who sre different, so once we got marriage equality it maybe would have been better to take that as a win, and kind of blended into the background. Now that Gay people have inadvertantly been caught up in the trans debacle, I do worry that all the performative Pride stuff may be coming back to bite us. If my DC was questioning their sexuality, in the current climate I would advise them to keep it to themselves.The people who are not homophobic may judge them for being performative,and kids who are homophobic will use it against them.
I don't know if this is pragmatism or a trauma response. I will add that a close friend was stabbed to death in a hate crime incident when I was young and (separately) I would probably have been caught up.in the Soho Nail bomb Incident If I hadn't missed my train that evening. Therefore it is very difficult for me to be objective.
In terms of your son, it may be that without knowing the history, it could seem like Gay people are being performative.He lmay be wondering why this group are being singled out for special attention when to him, they don't seem to be disadvantaged. I would just say that as long as he isn't being nasty,nobody can tell him who to be friends with. I can only speak for myself, but If somebody had a problem with my sexuality, I would prefer them to avoid me than to pretend to be friendly and judge behind my back. Unfortunately, for any LGBT person, people having a problem with your sexuality goes with the territory, but people can just live and let live.