was I unreasonable to refuse to go an aquarium on welfare grounds

Perhaps it's the best thing for the penguins, though? The best way to keep them cold enough? I haven't been there, so I don't know.

I'm just wary of using human values to judge animal wellbeing. For instance, there was that sunfish that got depressed during covid because it wasn't getting visitors, and the zookeepers had to make cardboard people for it. It seems really counter intuitive that a fish would do that.

It seems to me that it's really hard to say what a penguin needs to thrive unless you know a boatload about penguins. Enough room is a very logical starting point, but can you compensate a lot for them having a lot less space than they would in the wild? You can with some species.

Same - I was horrified. Completely unnecessary too, the beautiful fish are plenty to look at.

It's black and white statements like this that make me loose respect for people.

In a perfect world, yes, zoos should not exist.

In the world that we have, zoos are an important conservation and education tool. Species like Preswalski's horse, which is now thriving in the wild, would be extinct if it weren't for zoos.

Many species thrive in zoos, with appropriate enrichment. While life in the wild is the ideal, it also has to be acknowledged that life in the wild is often brutal and short, especially for animals that have had injuries.

I think you were totally right, and right to say what your concern is. I'm shocked there are penguins being held in such poor conditions.

Shocked but not surprised.

Not at all, and I admire your ethics. I feel similar about animal enclosures but still go. They probably just felt a bit embarrassed themselves and if they judged you for having ethics (which I doubt) then I wouldn't want to be friends with them. I don't think they will actually care and there's anything to smooth over. Did they end up going? Sorry if I missed that bit.

Yeah, I agree. A better reason would have been something vague like “I’m not really an aquarium person.”

This!

Well done OP, the more that down out and refuse to visit, the more that will join you.

Good for you OP. You did the right thing being honest.

I don't think you were unreasonable at all. I find aquariums and zoos to generally be sad and depressing prisons for animals and can't cope with looking at them.

No judgement from me towards those that don't share my views though- I eat meat and exploit animals daily dye to this practice. But I can't cope with the sadness captured animals make me feel when it's supposed to be fun!

But I would find it odd if I was encouraged to hide the reason why I didn't want to visit one. Especially if I was the trip organiser like you were OP, why should you have to hide the reason you don't fancy visiting the aquarium? Sounds as if it did make people feel uncomfortable, but I think they need to toughen up and own and face up to their choice to visit somewhere that imprisons penguins and other creatures in enclosures that are definitely too small, and are therefore quite inhumane. Additionally, you may have made some people think about the issue. Sorry if you do lose the groups friendship, that would really disappoint me. People are odd. But that's what we do- keep penguins in cages and feel too fragile if someone says it's cruel...

I got absolute living hell from a couple of my animal loving friends. Because I went to a wildlife park when I went to Canada.

If they'd asked me before they flew off the handle, they would have known that all of these creatures had been rescued as injured from the wild and were no longer capable of independent living in the wild. The eagles were unable to fly for.example.

Rather than putting healthy creatures down that were injured, they are flourishing in a wildlife park with massive enclosures and are well cared for. The money from ticket sales goes to help there. Welfare and to rescue other injured creatures that would otherwise die in the wild.

I'm not saying sea life is like that. It probably isn't, but do do your research before being an arsehole to somebody for no reason.

Why should she? She’s quite right. Zoos shouldn’t exist.

The worst that I ever saw was in Russia in the '80s. Leningrad Zoo was hellish: single animals kept in small cages. I recall that they had a cross between a donkey and a zebra in a bare cage on its own. (I was an exchange student.)

Then we made the mistake of going to see the Moscow State Circus on Tour. The horses were so thin that their ribs were showing.

Just when we thought it couldn't get any worse, they brought out a bear in a dress. We were in tears when we left. Animal welfare was obviously an alien concept.

We went to the London Aquarium last year. I wish someone had told me that they kept penguins in the basement. I never would have gone if I'd known. I think you were doing them a service pointing it out.

I think you were right not to go and right to explain why you weren't going.

I don't really understand the replies saying you should have made up an excuse. The parents who didn't see anything wrong with the way penguins are kept would just think you were overreacting. If some parents felt uncomfortable then that would because you made them think about something which they hadn't considered and their consciences were pricking them.

When my dd was young, I took her and a friend out for the day. They wanted to go to the Sealife Centre and as it was a small one, I thought there would just be fish and it would be ok. I was surprised by how uncomfortable I was at the small size of the tanks. The worst were a couple of large rays which belonged in the sea and were in an enclosure that took them a couple of minutes to swim around.

I wished that we hadn't gone and I haven't been back. That Sealife Centre was depressing enough. I'm sure that one with penguins would be far worse.

I dont see why they needed to know? So you say it is on ethical grounds, and? We're you expecting a certain reply? They to change the event?

Same if i invite a vegan to a restaurant i need to know if they are coming or not i dont need to know thry refuse to go because they put honey on carrots

It just seems attention seeking to me

YANBU. You have morals and you don’t compromise on them. You don’t need to smooth it over. They’re ridiculous!

Why shouldn't OP say what she means, what she feels strongly about?

Good for you op.

I have a similar dilemma. Invited to a family members surprise birthday. Surprise, it's at a greyhound racetrack . Surprise, under no condition will I be going to that .

YABU and YANBU on this one.
YANBU to not go due to the way you see the penguins being kept.
YABU to explain why you don't want to go as it sounds like some seem to think you are judging them for wanting to go and you want to persuade them otherwise.
If you don't to go just say No thanks, not for me, I'll see you all next time. No judgement needed.

Say you've got a phobia of penguins and can't go

I don’t think you were being unreasonable, OP, and I applaud you for being honest about why you turned it down.

I just always say, ' I don't go to aquariums/zoos/races whatever due to concerns about animal welfare, I hope you all have a lovely time though' Real friends will respect and understand.