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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not pay subs?

88 replies

PunkApple · 08/07/2025 15:35

Less of a AIBU and more of a WIBU..
My daughter attends a local club, volunteers run the sessions but we pay termly to cover costs (hall hire, craft materials etc). She's been attending since September last year and really enjoys it.
Now since Easter the people running the club have been very inconsistent, cancelling due to their holidays (2 weeks before Easter hols, and another 2 weeks of holiday last month) there's also been one week (last week) cancelled due to illness and another week previously cancelled due to 'appointments'. To put it bluntly this term she's missed 3 sessions and the term before 4 sessions. Next week will also be the last session as the end of term party which was planned has mysteriously disappeared from the planning too. To total it, thats 8 weeks in two terms that haven't gone ahead. Which is effectively a whole term's worth of cancelled sessions!
A message in the groupchat appeared this morning asking those parents who haven't paid subs to pay them this week, I asked wether it will be a discounted rate due to the amount of missed sessions lately but was told no as its the same cost every term and averaged accross the whole year. This covers materials, rent etc which I do understand to an extent.
AIBU to be a bit annoyed? WIBU to make more of a point about it? Or shall I just pay and shut up as my daughter enjoys the club and the volunteers are giving up their time..?

OP posts:
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Fundayout2025 · 10/07/2025 16:56

UsingAMansNameInAWomensWorld · 10/07/2025 09:49

Because you have access to personal details

And you have to work with the adults. DBS isn't just about kids

Do all call centre workers in insurance companies or banks have DBS? After all they have access to financial information Friend of mine has done 30 years in accounts and payroll and never had one

drspouse · 10/07/2025 10:21

UsingAMansNameInAWomensWorld · 10/07/2025 09:49

Because you have access to personal details

And you have to work with the adults. DBS isn't just about kids

It's not actually legal to ask for an Enhanced DBS if you do not work directly and regularly with children or vulnerable adults (I doubt that Scout leaders would count as vulnerable).
Nevertheless, many organisations will require one for roles where it's not legal to ask for one (e.g. schools where you will be going on one single daytime trip).
For an admin role in Scouting it's a bit of a grey area because you might need the lower level DBS for the financial aspects (with a large group of 100+ kids and £300-400 per year per child for subs, camps etc. that's over £30K turnover per year) (my DH had one of these for his former job in finance), but it could be argued you will be a regular at meetings (even if it's just start/end to pick up financial things) and therefore work with children "regularly".

UsingAMansNameInAWomensWorld · 10/07/2025 09:49

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 21:08

Why would you need one to do admin. Nowhere near the kids.

Because you have access to personal details

And you have to work with the adults. DBS isn't just about kids

Theroadt · 09/07/2025 23:53

Options: (1) volunteer to help so they don’t have gaps & cancellations (2) move to another club.

ExpertArchFormat · 09/07/2025 23:27

Pay and keep shtum.
When they cancel due to illness they still have to pay the hire fee for the hall.

You coukd volunteer yourself then there would be fewer cancellations

PunkApple · 09/07/2025 23:20

CarpetKnees · 09/07/2025 22:49

So why didn't you pay this term's subs in April, as you knew it was £25 for the term ?

I do understand it is frustrating when you are expecting 12 sessions a term, to have 4 missed BUT that is ridiculously cheap, so still very good vfm even if half of them were cancelled.

YABU.

The fee wasn't due until June. I paid previous terms. I paid for the Easter term. The reason this one was late was the leaders cancelling so many sessions meant we werent physically present to pay, I wasn't the only parent who hadn't paid up until this point and the leaders understood this. It was paid for yesterday.

OP posts:
Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 23:08

TheNightingalesStarling · 09/07/2025 21:21

The admin involves financial information and other sensitive information

So do many office jobs that don't require a dbs. Or certainly didn't in 2009

IbizaToTheNorfolkBroads · 09/07/2025 22:57

TheNightingalesStarling · 08/07/2025 16:10

Obviously no idea what your club is but to put it into perspective for our Scout group...

Subs... £120
Capitation... (payment to HQs covering insurance, training etc)... £65
Then we have stuff like the Hut insurance, the electricity bill, the water bill...the council tax... another big chunk gone.
The badges add up...

The actual money we get to run a session for equipment etc? Just a few pounds a term. That's for craft stuff, for ingredients, and replacement sports equipment....

Most if put money is from fundraising, not the Subs.

When I was a Cub leader (I moved to Explorers 3 years ago), we worked on 75p per Cub per week.

CarpetKnees · 09/07/2025 22:49

PunkApple · 08/07/2025 18:05

I've paid all of them (including now this current term). I said this is WIBU, don't be ridiculous.

So why didn't you pay this term's subs in April, as you knew it was £25 for the term ?

I do understand it is frustrating when you are expecting 12 sessions a term, to have 4 missed BUT that is ridiculously cheap, so still very good vfm even if half of them were cancelled.

YABU.

TheNightingalesStarling · 09/07/2025 21:21

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 21:08

Why would you need one to do admin. Nowhere near the kids.

The admin involves financial information and other sensitive information

hopspot · 09/07/2025 21:17

PunkApple · 08/07/2025 16:03

I did fill out a form when she started the club saying I didn't mind helping out to run sessions (although with a 2 and 3 year old at home, dinner to cook, bathtime to sort etc, it couldn't be every week) but I've never been asked or invited to help with events so I assumed they didn't need anybody extra? Maybe I'll remind them the next time I drop her off.

You couldn’t make every session and that’s ok. But they can’t make every session and that’s not ok?

TheWonderhorse · 09/07/2025 21:16

OP it's £25 per term. I'm cringing for you.

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 21:12

Bushmillsbabe · 09/07/2025 13:16

They shouldn't have asked you to pay for a dbs. We only dbs our regular volunteers, not our occasional ones, and we pay for it. Why would you need to lose a day's pay? DBS check are now done online/video call. Our parent volunteers are for ratio purposes more than anything else, we have to have 1 adult to 5 children if we leave the hut, and with 2 leaders and 24 girls we just can't do it without them. They do have to be over 18 though, was his sister over 18?

We do ask parents for help with the banking/finances (have to submit accounts for audit each year, which is madness), admin bits etc, but no help is forthcoming. We also sometimes do things on weekends, which would think would be much easier for most to help, but nope.

If lose a days pay as if have to take it off work to get to the beavers an hour earlier. And I cant hear on video calls as no subtitles . Besides this was 15 years ago

Yes his sister was 18 at the time

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 21:08

TheNightingalesStarling · 09/07/2025 12:43

Volunteer DBS is free.
You need one for the admin side as well.

Why would you need one to do admin. Nowhere near the kids.

UsingAMansNameInAWomensWorld · 09/07/2025 17:49

Just for perspective:
Our unit broke up "early" but we have a trip coming up this weekend which we decided was better for them to have the meeting off beforehand

Getting ready for this trip I have:
Emailed parents to invite them
Booked and paid
Read a pack of information to make sure I have all the details
Creates forms
Sent another email to parents with the forms
Completed a risk assessment
Booked travel after enquiring at a few places for quotes
Sent information to every other leader going
Answered questions off parents which have already been included such as when it is and where it is
Created a home contact list
Brought food and snacks for myself

All before you then consider the day I will give up for said event

And the fact that I work

They might have "missed" 2 sessions but I haven't been slacking off

drspouse · 09/07/2025 16:50

In theory, the group could pay for the babysitter for a parent to volunteer but I bet the other parents wouldn't want the fees to increase to cover that - even if it meant fewer cancelled sessions.

budgiegirl · 09/07/2025 15:04

Not everyone pays for a sitter to have nights out either, surely you can’t think that? Why would your job magically allow it once a month? What if you also help care of a friends kids or an older relative? Weird to assume everyone that can’t volunteer is just unreasonable

Of course there will always be exceptions, I accept that, but I don't believe for a moment that out of 32 cubs families that only about 6 of them can manage to find the time to help out for one session per year! It doesn't have to be a parent that attends - it can be a grandparent, aunt, friend, older sibling (over 18). Very strange how they don't want to help when it's an evening of litter picking, but are available when we go to the dry ski slope. They are way too busy at a weekend to help with a fund-raising tombola because it's family time, but have no such problems when it's help needed on a weekend trip to an airshow.

Believe me, the vast majority (not all) could rearrange their schedule when it suits them, they just don't want to.

MrsAvocet · 09/07/2025 14:09

I can see both sides. I volunteer at a children's sports club and I'd say that majority, of parents unless they have volunteering experience themselves have little understanding of quite how much time and effort volunteers put into running these things. But thankfully there's only a small minority who have totally unreasonable expectations about what their £3 a week entitles them to.
In my experience most voluntary groups are running on the lowest fees they can manage. But baseline costs have to be paid come what may and unless you're lucky enough to have a sponsor or some other kind of external funding that money has to come from members/parents either directly or via fundraising. It's not reasonable to expect volunteers to cover any losses - it costs many, probably most of us money to volunteer as it is.
There are different ways to do it of course. Our activity is weather dependent and we have to pay the facility hire whether we go ahead or not, so we have to find that money somewhere. We choose not to charge for cancelled sessions but the weekly rate is slightly higher as a result. We know roughly how many weeks get cancelled each year and factor it in. Charging a lower weekly rate but not refunding cancelled sessions would also work but is more likely to annoy parents. The bottom line is that if parents want their children to be able to participate in clubs they do need to cover the costs. If you want refunds for cancelled sessions you'll end up paying in a different way.
However, there are some people who seem to see "But I'm a volunteer" as some kind of get out of jail free card. Being volunteers doesn't absolve you from the responsibility to run your organisation properly and whilst it's completely unreasonable to expect 100% attendance from any volunteer, we do expect ours to be fairly committed and we have asked unreliable people to leave before now, even if that has meant reducing the number of members. I think members should be able to expect that most of the sessions they have signed up for will run barring unforeseen circumstances and I'd say that any group that is having to cancel regularly due to lack of personnel needs to look at whether that group is in fact viable in it's current form.
In the OP's circumstances I'd pay but I would be a bit irked and I'd probably be talking to the organisers about ways to increase the volunteer pool.

ToKittyornottoKitty · 09/07/2025 13:41

budgiegirl · 09/07/2025 11:45

But also your job and your husbands job did actually allow for you to do it, not everyone’s does. Having jobs that don’t allow for volunteering on a set night doesn’t mean you don’t care, it’s not always an excuse, some people just have different circumstances to you

I appreciate that it may not be possible for everyone to volunteer every week - that's a big commitment that not everyone is able to/ wants to make. But most should be able to attend perhaps once a term. surely? Even if it means that they have to get a sitter for the evening, or bring their younger children with them. It's strange how they can do it if they want an evening out, but can't to attend cubs/brownies/rainbows etc.

At cubs, we don't currently run a compulsory rota, but we do ask for a couple of parents each week. It's quite noticeable that it's always the same few parents who step up.

Not everyone pays for a sitter to have nights out either, surely you can’t think that? Why would your job magically allow it once a month? What if you also help care of a friends kids or an older relative? Weird to assume everyone that can’t volunteer is just unreasonable.

Bushmillsbabe · 09/07/2025 13:16

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 12:28

We had this when DS joined beavers. I agreed to help but they wanted me to pay for a dbs check and fill in all these bloody forms as well as lose a days pay to do so. His dad dropped him off en route to work and I collected him on my way home ( this was done for DS. His dad could've kept him with him while he set up the gig and I collect from there so wasn't for childcare)

I also offered to sort out their Web page and any admin stuff also but the leaders were like awkward teachers who don't seem to realise that people have other work. His elder sister also offered to help out during sessions but they insisted had to be a parent .

I pulled him out at first half term due to this.

They shouldn't have asked you to pay for a dbs. We only dbs our regular volunteers, not our occasional ones, and we pay for it. Why would you need to lose a day's pay? DBS check are now done online/video call. Our parent volunteers are for ratio purposes more than anything else, we have to have 1 adult to 5 children if we leave the hut, and with 2 leaders and 24 girls we just can't do it without them. They do have to be over 18 though, was his sister over 18?

We do ask parents for help with the banking/finances (have to submit accounts for audit each year, which is madness), admin bits etc, but no help is forthcoming. We also sometimes do things on weekends, which would think would be much easier for most to help, but nope.

KnickerlessParsons · 09/07/2025 13:00

I’m guessing it’s Brownies or similar.
the coat of the venue will be the same for the term, and the sessions are dirt cheap anyway so you should pay up.

SockQueen · 09/07/2025 12:55

PunkApple · 08/07/2025 17:01

The reason they haven't been paid is due to the missed sessions, nobody has paid 'late' the leaders understand this as I'm not the only parent who hasn't paid yet. Did you see the message in the chat? I was perfectly polite and simply asked a question.

Term started in April though, surely? So regardless of missed sessions, not having paid by July is late by anyone's standards.

It sounds like a unit that is struggling, for sure, and YWNBU to either offer to join the leadership team yourself, or have a word with the local commissioner in case they're not aware of the problems. Withholding payments is not going to help anyone.

drspouse · 09/07/2025 12:44

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 12:28

We had this when DS joined beavers. I agreed to help but they wanted me to pay for a dbs check and fill in all these bloody forms as well as lose a days pay to do so. His dad dropped him off en route to work and I collected him on my way home ( this was done for DS. His dad could've kept him with him while he set up the gig and I collect from there so wasn't for childcare)

I also offered to sort out their Web page and any admin stuff also but the leaders were like awkward teachers who don't seem to realise that people have other work. His elder sister also offered to help out during sessions but they insisted had to be a parent .

I pulled him out at first half term due to this.

You should never have to pay for a DBS check and the online stuff can be done at the start of a meeting. I wonder if you have misunderstood?

TheNightingalesStarling · 09/07/2025 12:43

Fundayout2025 · 09/07/2025 12:28

We had this when DS joined beavers. I agreed to help but they wanted me to pay for a dbs check and fill in all these bloody forms as well as lose a days pay to do so. His dad dropped him off en route to work and I collected him on my way home ( this was done for DS. His dad could've kept him with him while he set up the gig and I collect from there so wasn't for childcare)

I also offered to sort out their Web page and any admin stuff also but the leaders were like awkward teachers who don't seem to realise that people have other work. His elder sister also offered to help out during sessions but they insisted had to be a parent .

I pulled him out at first half term due to this.

Volunteer DBS is free.
You need one for the admin side as well.

drspouse · 09/07/2025 12:42

ToKittyornottoKitty · 09/07/2025 11:14

But also your job and your husbands job did actually allow for you to do it, not everyone’s does. Having jobs that don’t allow for volunteering on a set night doesn’t mean you don’t care, it’s not always an excuse, some people just have different circumstances to you.

That's why I suggested upthread offering to volunteer from home/daytimes (doing admin, creating and collecting in forms for camps etc., doing the shopping, prepping crafts) and weekends (organising and taking girls on outings).