Friend shouted at my 2 year old

If that was my teenager, they’d be going to school and showering.

Given that you’ve never had to deal with a teenager and have zero idea what you’re talking about, you’ve got a hell of a shock waiting for you around 2037.

Op I believe you. I have a toddler who hits as well at times, it is normal. We correct her, and don’t allow it. I have an older child who never hit. So it happens.

I would never accept a friend shouting at my child. I think you might have been in shock but today you can definitely send her a message telling her that was completely out of line and never to do that again. You have helped her a lot so it seems like you do have the right regardless about telling her how you feel

Exactly. I got sick of going to toddler groups only for my child to get hurt by others and the parents doing bugger all about it. I understand that children do at times act inappropriately which may include hitting and if another child hit mine and the parent immediately dealt with it appropriately and took steps to prevent it from happening again then there would be no issue. But more and more you see them just letting the child hit or hurt others and either nothing is said or it's a weak "come on now timmy, we don't hit, gentle hands". And the kid will do it numerous times during the session. If my kid hit/pulled hair etc then it would be dealt with and I'd be telling them that if it happens again then we go home. And follow up on that.

Yes get a spine OP and sort this out now, otherwise you’ll be getting calls from nursery/school saying X has bitten/pulled hair of another child. That said, reading some of the stories on MN some schools sound useless at dealing with this. OP you might hope the child who is bitten/hair pulled by your child does not have a Mother like I am, as I told my child to do it back to them. Not that it ever happened, but you know, your child might experience his own medicine one day if you don’t teach him now.

It's always the children who are being raised with 'gentle' parenting methods who are the worst behaved.

If she goes around slapping and hair pulling at nursery she will get a real shock when some children decide to hit her back. Horrible behaviour, and contrary to popular opinion, not normal for todders. Mine never hit, bit or slapped. Actually do some parenting and tell her off, and nip it in the bud.

At 2 a firm clear NO is likely all that was needed.

If you can't tell her don't shout at my child - or a direct I was dealing with that - then don't be round her with you kid.

I know some posters think she was trying to be helpful but I had family who did such things to undermine us and be top dog as it were - just a gentle oi - I was dealing with that stopped most of it. No idea if that's the case here.

Your parenting styles do sound just too different and if she can't respect you and your parenting probably too stressful to continue seeing her with young child with you.

I'm always a tiny bit sceptical when someone says a person 'shouted' at their child... Because I know a lot of people who would describe someone shouting who has in fact just raised their voice for impact. The two are not the same thing. Plenty of parents, teachers, people in all walks of life raise their voice to ensure they are listened to. Shouting is quite different.
But a lot of people these days seem to feel only super soft gentle voices must be used at all times... They are the ones whose kids tend to struggle when they hit secondary school and constantly claim teachers are 'shouting at them' just because the teacher raised their voice.

I didnt witness what happened with you and your friend OP so can't comment in this instance. But I would definitely be taking a firm tone with hair pulling, you need to nip that in the bud and sometimes the longer explanations about why they shouldn't do it etc don't really get understood by a young child.

Fair enough then. I’m with you. Don’t get me wrong, I have raised my voice at my child (I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I have done it in the nearly 8 years since he was born) if I was in the wrong, I apologise to him.

But I did start to change my approach when he got a little older - I did it gradually from about age 3 and I never need to shout at him now. A firm ‘no’ and the ‘mom look’ usually does the trick 😂

Well they will for the mother but at least they won’t around the friend I guess!

You’ve watched your friend raise her kids. Why are you surprised that she shouted at your dd? She clearly doesn’t approve of how you raise your child and was going to shout one day.
Also you think that your friend is an abusive and crap parent, why would you take your dd round? It’s one thing to support what you consider abusive parenting but it was inevitable that dd with he exposed if you took her round.
I’m surprised that you consider her a best friend yet have written such a critical post. While I don’t think that shouting was appropriate, I don’t understand why you want to socialise with someone who you clearly judge very negatively either.
Your comments about teens are laughable and naive. It’s very common for teens to want to stay in their rooms and there’s hundreds of posts where they don’t enjoy holidays in their teen years. A shower dodging phase isn’t unusual either. If you’re s kind parent, how would you convince your teen to shower or go to school? I’ve not experienced school refusal because I’ve been fortunate not to have a child with poor mental health but I don’t think it’s a parenting problem.
IME children do random impulsive stuff when they are 2 (and older!) and your friend should have given you a chance to tell off your dd first but I suspect that she judges your parenting as too ineffective hence the shouting. You are at opposite ends of the parenting scale and there’s no middle ground here.

Ha the child won’t do it again though will it? Job done.

Holy crap on a cracker. Why do people persist in thinking that its ok for kids to bite/pull/scratch etc?
We were never allowed to do that and sharp reprimands were delivered.
Kids must fear the consequenses of their actions. None of this "gentle hands" crap, which is the least effective method to have ever been floated about

Christ. I'm with your friend on this one. You clearly do not appropriatly discapline your child. "when she gets excited" christ. Once and done for that type of behaviour.

And just to be clear, the view of gentle parenting is starting to be that it isn't particularly effective. But the results of that won't come home to roost for you for at least a couple of years.

Your friend simply wouldn’t have felt the need to step in if you’d dealt with it.

~This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.
Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted~

You literally wrote this in your initial post??! Perhaps reread what you’re expecting us to respond to??

My kids have NEVER slapped, bitten or pulled my hair. Not because I’m a perfect parent. Because I corrected this behaviour the minute it arose as babies.

Hmmmm. I'd wait until you have two teenagers in the house before you say you don't need to shout. I don't need to shout at my 5 year old, but the 15 year old pushes every button and, yes, I do at him.

Fair enough you don't want your friend shouting at your child. Tell her. But stop judging her. You haven't walked in her shoes YET.

I’m going to be quite snarky here (I try not to be usually) but after OP having a go at everyone including myself, me thinks it’s her who needs to cap her emotions and communicate more effectively…in the style of gentle parenting…

Although I didn’t shout (yes of course very occasionally, but more so I could be heard above the racket) no way would I ever have said use gentle hands 😬 I was more the ‘stop doing that now! it hurts and you wouldn’t like it if someone did that to you!’ said in a no-nonsense and brisk way (more a dialogue with imaginary exclamation marks).

Gentle parenting often gets confused with permissive parenting. I think OP is doing fine and her style aligns more with my own than the shouting method. People (adults and children) switch off if they just get shouted at as the norm.

Your first post (which should have contained all of the relevant information; I haven't read all of your posts as you seem so hostile to people who are giving any input that you don't like) said -

"my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.
Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears."

So you didn't in fact say that you had told her no (based on your opening post; as I say, not everyone reads numerous updates). So I'm not sure why you're being rude and cheeky to people who are answering your post? In all honestly it sounds like you let your daughter act this way and don't provide any discipline or correction and your friend is sick of seeing the shit parenting so she tried to provide a bit of discipline.

Thanks for your reply, you’ve put it far more eloquently than I could.

Being a millenial, I’m surrounded by a lot of (well intentioned) gentle parents (who are 99% permissive instead) and it’s really tiresome at toddler groups when you have a 2+ year child (groups are 1-5yo) being violent, snatching from my young toddler and all you hear is a meek “we don’t do that Timmy, shall we be nice Timmy, share Timmy” as the mother sits on a chair smiling at me and I’m literally shielding my own toddler on the floor. Most Of the time to observers, the kid being gentle patented isn’t listening and it usually ends up with a physical intervention anyway (or in my toddler groups - straight up ignorance) .

I myself went through a hair pulling and biting stage (sure I will again) and I just kept putting my daughter down and saying NO. Maybe that’d be deemed as shouting in today’s world but I don’t believe a toddler working on basic instincts understands me saying “let’s discuss your unusual angry outburst there dear”. I truly believe they still work on the most animalistic level of anger, hunger, comfort etc and causation and effect is the best you can hope for. E.g being put down when hurting mummy and mummy not playing into it. OP is probably rolling her eyes thinking she has an Einstein who works differently and understands the Freudian ID and super ego.

Do I know everything? No. Do I shout or hit? No. Do I enjoy being around gentle toddler parents? Absolutely not. Makes most toddler groups miserable so whilst I don’t fully agree with the friend, I do empathise.

What on earth are you on about? My point in my last post was that kids will shout and bully, you can’t stop things from happening at school or nursery when you aren’t there. At some point someone will shout at them.

OP, ignore all these posters saying you don't have boundaries with your child and that she'll consequently turn into a monster as a result. I grew up in household with a mum who had a temper and she shouted at me all the time for any little misdemeanor, it did affect me negatively and I chose not to parent that way. There is no physical punishment in our house and we very very rarely raise our voices (nobody's perfect) and the times when tempers have been lost then we've sat down with the kids after and apologised/explained. It's very possible to raise kids into decent human beings this way, you can have boundaries (as you've explained) without shouting at or hurting your kids. Children model behaviour, if you treat them with respect then you will get it back. My kids are teenagers now and are both lovely, we have zero behavioural issues. Of course part of that is their natural temperament, I certainly don't take all or even most of the credit, but I think growing up in a warm, kind and respectful home has helped.