To refuse to give ds money?

I hate to say it but I don’t think he’ll make any effort to find a closer job if he knows you’re going to keep giving him lifts etc. I understand why you’re doing it, we naturally want to help our kids, but he really needs to learn that there won’t always be someone around to make his life easier for him. He needs to take some responsibility for himself or you’ll still be bailing him out in 20 years. Let him take the 2 hour bus, let him uber himself to work if he’s running late; and if he’s got no money for an Uber then he’ll be late. It’s a life lesson that he’ll just have to learn. If he loses his job and has to cut down on Nando’s he might be suddenly motivated!

How about getting paid to do some chores when he's strapped? My older 2 DSs are now at uni, but they would be paid for either washing the car or mowing the lawn when they were still at school and wanted extra cash. Give him the option to take it or leave it, but you stick to your guns!

Yanbu- you pay his essentials.

The only thing I would do is give a social allowance at that age and see work as extra to that but it would be a fixed amount and not extras because he’s spent all his wages.

Its possible an allowance might make him think, especially if he knew he wouldn’t be getting another penny

You could, but since he's got used to you bailing him out he'll probably just spend the entire allowance and then you're back where you started

Just about the only "must" in all that is him getting to college, so if necessary I'd give him his bus fare each day and refuse absolutely anything else once he's spent up

TBH I can't see any other way he'll learn ...

I don’t pay for clothes for my 17 year old, apart from school uniform. He has a job & only wants designer stuff - he buys his own.

stop funding him. My now 17 year old was rubbish with money until he had to make his part time wage stretch. He uses birthday & Christmas money to buy clothes & buys bargains on Vinted to.

your so needs to learn if he spends it all, the bank of mum & dad is closed. He’ll make better choices next month

If I were you I’d be cutting down on what you already pay for him. This will teach him more about real life. I’d start with his college travel fares, he can pay for those himself, he has a job. And when he runs out of money he runs out of money- do not give him more. Let him get takeaways if he wants. If you cut back on what you give him he’ll soon learn he needs to prioritise. Oh and if I were you, the next time he didn’t eat a meal I cooked and got a takeaway instead would be the last time I cooked for him until he made a serious commitment not to do that.

YANBU

There's no way in hell I'd be giving my hard earned money to someone to just fritter it away on takeaways!

Don't give him a penny. I'd buy him something like the below to help and guide him as much as possible, but other than that, that's it, no more money handouts:

Money Skills for Teens: A Beginner’s Guide to Budgeting, Saving, and Investing. Everything a Teenager Should Know About Personal Finance (Essential Life Skills for Teens) : Bowe, Ferne: Amazon.co.uk: Books

This is how we do it with 17 yr old ( did the same with our oldest too)
Monthly bus ticket/bus travel cost covered however that pans out for college.
Allowance monthly from age 11 for fun.
Driving lessons plus test cost up to 1st test, if they fail, they pay from there.
We cover phone, football, Spotify family plus 2/3 clothes shops a year to stock up on normal essentials.
Anything else comes from their part time job. Including car, fuel, maintenance and insurance for car etc.
Occasionally slip them extra cash as a treat (my dad gives me petrol money into my 40s)
Food is made based on how many are usually at home that week. Leftovers used for lunches for work the next day.
If they are skint, they can't go out. If they are skint, they cant get takeaways (dont tend to anyway but like to eat out occasionally)
Both can budget and both work bloody hard because they like nice things and want to run a car/travel.
Time to treat him like the almost adult he is. Be there to support but choices have consequences. And whilst at home, its an excellent time to learn that.

If he hasn't already, get him to set up a Monzo account. V easy to budget for the month and use the different pots to allocate money to what he wants to do. Also easy to save a little, split bills with friends etc. Game changer

Has he consciously understood how to budget?
Suggest to him that you can sit down with him and help him write the budget, possibly have a second bank account set up for him, divide the pay cheque by 5, and write that number down, explain that is the weekly budget. all but 1 weeks money goes into the savings account and on the same day each week (e.g. Sunday) he can move the next weeks money into the daily account. The divide by 5 is so that there is money for special events/birthdays/Christmas (or suggest it could be to save up for new computer game/ fancy trainers)
When I went to uni i found it helpful having multiple accounts, only one that I had a debit card for which just had that weeks spending money in, for anything else I had to log in to and consciously move money (very helpful when the Student Finance Maintenance payment comes in for the whole term and you need to make it last!)
If you are giving him an allowance agree how much it is (and if he gets extra for washing the car/babysitting) and give him the choice of if he gets it on the same day in the week as he is doing his weekly banking or if he wants it offset by half the week.

Have a conversation with him along the lines that whilst you are very happy to cook for him, you are not prepared to keep wasting food in future, so from this point forward you wont do him a dinner unless he specifically tells you he wants it - and mum's cafe closes at 7.00 p.m. so he will have to sort himself out beyond this.

Work out what you consider to be a reasonable allowance on top of his earnings and give this to him on a Friday, so he does have money for the weekend, and has to budget or go without during the week.

A lot of this is age related and is a desire to start to be more independent. I suspect in a year or so much of this will have passed.

But it's a good time to start to help him to be more independent, so perhaps he gets a slightly higher allowance and starts to take care of the regular monthly costs that you currently pay for - but one thing at a time. If he is studying and working, his brain bandwidth will be used up!

Tell him in one short paragraph about budgeting. Repeat whenever he asks for money.
BTW his leaving his dinner habit is so annoying I think I would freeze small portions of whatever he likes then tell him to microwave a portion when he’s ready, rather than including him in family meals.

@Cakecoffeetv Do your buses have an app in which he can buy say 10 tickets then activate them for each journey? Usually cheaper than on the bus (although I know there is still a cap on some routes) and you could tell him he has to buy enough to last the month when he is paid (and show you)?

I agree I wouldn't give him extra he has a roof over his head meals provided you pay his bus fares take him to work and you're providing him with all the essentials like clothes etc and his phone. His wages are basically his fun money and he needs to learn he can't expect more when he's spent it all. No doubt you do all his laundry too. If he wants to eat takeaways all the time he can do it at his own expense and when it's gone that's it he'll have to either find a way to earn more or he can eat with the family. You're not starving him so don't feel guilty saying no to extra money-he doesn't need it he just wants it

Haha OP some people do seem to have got rather caught up with the food waste 🤣🤣🤣

however to answer your question I do not think you are being unreasonable to not give him more money to spend on take away/ snacks when he has run out.

it sounds like you have a good balance and he needs to learn that to get treats in life you have to work.

if he has no funds left then it sounds like there is a perfectly good meal there for him so he won’t starve.

if he wants more then he will have to find a new job or more hours.

I had a similar approach through uni with my kids, they were given enough to live but if they wanted take away and nights out they had to work. We could have afforded to give them more. All got jobs and never asked us for more money.

He's still a kid! The only things I'd expect him to buy for himself are treat things like tickets for shows and stuff. My son has had me on his Spotify account for years and my 15 year old treated me to a gig in Berlin, flights and accommodation included back in March. I think it's a sign they appreciate what we do for them. Fair enough to be concerned about your son's diet, but just tell him you're worried about the amount of junk he eats and are getting annoyed about all the home cooked food that's going to waste. Would limiting take aways to weekends help?

Stop cooking for him. Have easy staples that he can cook for himself in. This should help dial down the rage (which I would have too),

Don’t give him any more money either though. He needs to budget what he has and will only do that if you don’t give more.

If he leaves half his evening meal and forgets to take it for lunch, just microwave it, bulk it out a bit with some rice/pasta and give it to him the next evening for food?

Alternatively say, "unless you tell me in the morning if you want an evening meal, I won't cook you one. If you ask for a meal and don't eat it, I won't cook for you for a week, and you will have to make your own dinner"

You should start transitioning to giving him more money but making him pay for his own phone / subs etc so he gets used to managing money for ‘essentials’ as well as the fun stuff.

You are not setting him up well in life if he has had no experience of this aged 17!

I think you factor what your allowance to him is. So bus pass for a month/ phone / spotify etc (I would buy / cover the equivalent for a monthly bus) if he gets a lift that is a reclaim/ an Uber is most likely an overspend....(from his funds)
Travel to and from his job is a "set" amount ....so £2 per journey for example and that is factored into his allowance .....
Food that has been cooked for him is obviously available....
That's it!
What he earns - he spends....and when there is no more ...tough!
For context I have a son who lives at home but is at University - he has his own car which he pays for ..(it's electric) so I discount him for Uni travel (he pays a set amount for charging per month) He had to pay for his driving lessons though! (They won't be affording to run a car if they can't manage lessons)
I do still pay his mobile phone.(modest at £10) .dinner and household snacks are always available...before I cook I ask if he will be back for dinner and portion accordingly.
In your situation, I would not be giving him more money once he had run out....he's not gong to starve....and he will hopefully learn!

Take his money off him and give it back each week.

'Differing tastes' are something you get to indulge once you are fully self-supporting.

We pay for his phone, his bus fare/lunch to college, his driving lessons and his football subs. Plus obviously clothes etc when he needs.
It's pretty standard to fund these things for a 17 year old in full time education and to provide an allowance for going out with friends etc.
But surely he can tell you in advance that he is going to order a takeaway, so you know not to cook him anything. It's just the basics of respect.
Id probably give my dc extra if he ran out for things like going to the gym, swimming, cinema etc etc but not for more takeaways.
How much is he earning / spending on crap each month?

"Money burns a hole in his pocket. I thought/hoped that when he was earning it himself he might use it more wisely."

He needs to feel the pain of running out of money. He needs to be inconvenienced and have to go without things due to his impulsive buying.

Until he's felt that, he's just going to carry on thinking he can spend as he likes and you'll keep him topped up. Even when you first tell him you will not longer be subbing him, he likely won't believe you

So he'll spend all his money as normal then come to you and he will fully expect you to hand it over. You need to know in advance how you will handle that.

I'd also stop cooking for him for a while. Let him cook for himself.