Son asked for advice - what would you advise him?

I think he needs to end the relationship and tell this girl exactly why. That whilst he is fond of her, expecting him to apologise to an alcoholic bully who is emotionally abusive to her and her mother is not reasonable and no normal person (who hasn't grown up in such a dysfunctional family) would think that it was. I think it is a shame that this girl will quite likely end up with someone similar to DF because that is her normal, unless she manages to break free. They are both very young and DS will no doubt meet someone else in time who doesn't come with all this baggage. Personally if this was my son I think I might be heaving a sigh of relief, as much as I might feel sorry for her.

Has gf's dad apologised to you @SallyMcCarthy ? It's clear his arrogant, violent and abusive behaviour and general crap-dad vibe is at least partly at the root of his daughter's infidelity, causing you unreasonable levels of anguish. You should definitely demand an apology from him.

If that's the case then maybe OPs son shouldn't have apologised at all. But given that they have and presumably want to move on my point still stands.

The girlfriend behaved much worse to OP's DS than he did to her. Plus her father is an abusive alcoholic who regularly shouts at his wife and daughter. He isn't a man who deserves any respect or apologies.

An adult does not have to apologise to someone who does not warrant one, just because they happen to be older.

Unless there's something we don't know, this man (who is also an alcoholic) has no reason to be owed an apology, and OP's soon had no reason to apologise to him.

I might as well go across to my neighbour across the road, who's 40 years younger than me, demand an apology for no reason, and when I don't get one, say "but I'm older than you! Respect me!"

If he apologised to his gf, where's the harm in apologising to her dad for treating her badly? Should have smoothed things over straight away.

As it turns out, the girlfriend's dad is an abusive alcoholic so doesn't deserve any respect.

Your son needs to apologize.
You respect your elders.
Especially your girlfriends dad

You're conflating posts. The comment that poster was responding to was someone asking (well before the OP had posted her comment about the Dad being alcoholic/shouty), whether there was a chance that the OP's son might have been violent, and a poster responded to say if that was the case, why would the Dad be insisting the son apologise to him. You asked where they got that from (I assume the bit about the son being voilent) and the poster showed you the comment that they had responded to.

I think a lot of what will happen will depend on the personality type of the daughter.

My father was violent and verbally abusive and I grew up thinking this was normal and children needed to be shouted at/physically disciplined.

I was shocked when I met normal families after leaving home and I realised what was missing from mine. I did a lot of self-work and have never hurt or emotionally abused my children. They have clear ideas of their boundaries which I don't intrude on and we're pretty emotionally healthy as a family.

Many people with my background go the other way. It's why children of toxic families are more likely to go on to create their own toxic family. Unless they are self-aware and have a growth mindset, then why would they consider doing anything different?

I'd send your son some of the responses here OP. It might be helpful for him to see the perspective of outsiders. He has set his own clear boundary on the apology, it is clear and should be respected. If his girlfriend doesn't understand how her own father's behaviour is inappropriate, then there is no chance of your son ever being respected as part of this couple and the relationship may limp on for a few years (causing heartache and stress for all involved) but will ultimately need to end if your son doesn't want to have his boundaries trampled.

I recommend running on empty by jonice webb - it's a book about childhood emotional neglect. It talks about growing up in a house with a narcissist /addicted parent (plus loads of other dysfunctional scenarios). It's worth your son reading the book so he understands the potential dynamics of that household/how to understand his girlfriend. Ultimately she may change, but she may be too young to recognise the dysfunction yet.

Did the GF tell her DF the truth that she started off by getting it together with someone else first while still having your DS think it was an exclusive relationship.

If so and her DF has decided to skim over and ignore her behaviour I'd tell your DS that he's had a lucky escape as it sounds like either it's a family thing all quite normal for them to do, and isn't the GF's first time cheating.
Her DF sounds like a bully, she's a daddy's girl and will happily side with him.

Maybe you also need to step back and stop treating her like one of the family, she may be reading it that you think she's done nothing that's that bad if you're including her in family events.
Be civil but that's it.

Either way unless you DS sees this girl as being a long time, possibly marrage partner I'd advise him not to waste the best years of his life on someone that has shown their true colours and lack of respect for him so early in the relationship.

I'd give this relationship 6 more months.

If asked I would be advising my son to let this relationship go, apologising to her alcoholic father for upsetting her when she was equally if not responsible?!
Not a chance, it sounds like her Dads on a power trip and if she doesn’t stand up for him now she never will, every row etc will be related back to her Dad and your son will never be able to win no matter what he does. Too young to be dealing with all of this nonsense, they should be having the time of their lives.

I don't think it's any loss to your son to not be invited on a family holiday controlled by an abusively screaming alcoholic sexist patriarch. If he had any sense he would decline any such invitation. If his girlfriend had any sense, she would decline too.

If your son was rude or aggressive or dismissive to her father yes he should apologise for that.
but it sounds like she comes with too much baggage. Either they go off
BY THEMSELVES and have a holiday to work it all out and step back from the family stuff.

So she has a controlling arsehole of a father and she would rather acquiesce to that control and expect him to also live under the same oppressive control than assert herself as a free individual.

I'm sorry but I don't think this relationship will last if that's the circumstances she wants to live under.

It's not quite enough to break up over, but I think he should maybe hold off on treating her to lovely holidays and other things that signify a deeper commitment for the time being. Sooner or later she will need to choose whether to keep letting her father be in control of her life. If she's never going to be willing to break free then he should end the relationship - but he doesn't have to force that choice yet. He is fine to carry on, because most of the time he is unaffected by her father's arseholery.

I wouldn't rein back on your kindness and generocity to her. It's not a trading thing - you are modelling to both of them what a genuinely loving family is like.

Some people are stubborn, that is life.

We don’t know all the ins and outs of how they treated each other badly first time around, but father of the GF will naturally only care about how his daughter is treated, that is normal.

The son should have manned up and apologised; his gf is right, it’s his fault they are still in this situation. imho.

I have an alcoholic parent in law and it’s honestly hideous. You should advise him to get out whilst he can

I feel for the girlfriend. He sounds awful. She has to live under his roof and has no doubt been on eggshells for years. She also has no idea what a healthy relationship looks like. Of course your son shouldn’t apologise though.

Sounds like old school misogyny. Girlfriend's dad doesn't trust girlfriend to manage her own relationships, sees her as his property and wants an apology for damage to his property.

Your son should just take the high-road. Treat her to a holiday.

He's not going to be able to rewrite the intense familial scripts that facilitate a misogynist. Quite dignity over time makes the girlfriend's dad seem more and more unreasonable.

I've read your latest update. My advice would be to break up.

There’s not enough info to know whether the Dad is being unreasonable or not. From his perspective he is probably trying to protect his DD. He won’t be aware of the cheating. Sometimes a timely apology and sit down can do wonders. Would it really have been so bad for him to try to at least talk with the Dad to assure him that he does love his DD and wants to make it work? Of course there are 2, 3, 4 sides but that’s not too hard and didn’t mean him shouldering full blame, nor should he. Doubling down only going to lead to two immovable objects. The impasse won’t resolve on its own, so your DS options are. Do nothing and situation with the Dad will be a recurring issue, or go talk to him. It’s not even about right/wrong as much as facing issues and trying to resolve them. Once he’s done that, then he can decide on holiday and at least his GF (tell him to stay calm!) will know he tried…
Often when folk fall out all kinda of labels are bandied about, so best to focus on resolution which may not be possible.
Of course if what you say is true, why on earth doesn’t his GF confess?

This isn’t going to end well for your son, and is a taste of what the future might look like if they stay together . Does your son really want to be a part of a family so controlling and manipulative?

He’s also, on many occasions, witnessed her (alcoholic) dad scream abusivley at gf and reduce her and her mum to tears!!

That fits in with his pedantic emotionally immature attitude towards the situation. He won't change. He'll be huffing and puffing about something else in the future. Probably sees himself as 'head of the family' and will use that power when ever he can, if allowed. Your son needs to come to terms with that and whether or not he is able to put his feelings of justice aside and appease this man now and in the future. I would find that hard at 52 let alone 21...

Would he WANT to go on holiday with this man?

Anyway, for now I would put the holiday idea on hold. I think his reasons are perfectly reasonable. As is said many times on here when there are complaints about a MIL or FIL...you have a DH/DW/BF/GF problem really. He is astute enough to realise that at 21, which is good!

Also is it such a good idea for him to be spending a lot of money on her for this expensive holiday? They're 21, so young - why can't they go on a 'normal' holiday and they pay for themselves?

Why does he feel that he should be paying for her?