To feel like I'm not sure where I sit politically anymore, and to worry about it.

"All the benefits they get" are probably still cheaper than keeping a person with such high needs in residential care though.

When a bog standard care home for the elderly is £1k a week, I dread to think what the cost of caring for a physically fit teen or young adult with such high needs would be.

I should also point out that the impact of AI on jobs- it’s happening now, not in some far off future. It’s really impacted the young in terms of jobs and this needs to be taken seriously.

It is REALLY hard to get jobs now, for young people as well as everyone else, and like a PP I wish the government would address that sensibly before wading into cutting disability benefits. We are sicker as a country than we used to be, but I DONT think it’s that people, in the main, don’t want to work. They just give up as it’s so difficult to get on the 1st and 2nd rungs and even when they do they can’t afford a basic life. People are beaten down.
I feel like we just need some hope. I remember when things like Sure Start and Children’s centres were around. My children’s centre was an absolute lifeline when mine were small. These types of services help to integrate communities - starting from pre- birth.
There is absolutely such a thing as society but the corrupt, self serving politicians have decimated our faith in it. Ultimately it is going to have to be down to the people to try and re- build communities bit by bit.

Re: TMay cutting police force -apparently you can’t just sack police persons - so the ones who were sacked to reduce the numbers were auxiliary staff, admin etc.
So the upshot was a lot of police people taking over these nice 9-5 office jobs and not doing the frontline policing. And they are still there cos why would you give up a 9-5 for night duties etc

No me neither - but if he’s in school as much as he is you have to question why neither parent can work.

There's immigration and there's immigration though. In the affluent south manchester suburbs, its lovely and diverse with people from lots of backgrounds, countries and cultures who are educated and positive contributors to society. I work in pharma and its the same. Educated/trained migrants are generally a positive influence, they tend to speak good English too and integrate well. This is why a lot of left wing people, middle class people (including myself) feel like migration is positive.

The migrants who cause an issue are the uneducated migrants, working either in low paid jobs or illegally for cash. Tends to be lots of men with cultures that clash with our own. They don't integrate and do cause social issues. They tend to be in more working class or poor areas, which is why we have the issue of the old school working class voting reform.

It's a difficult challenge. The government absolutely need to get on top of illegal immigration/overstaying visas/dodgy education visas. While leaving well alone the positive contribution lots of immigrants make to the UK.

They got rid of “institutions” in favour of “community care” to reduce costs, not for the benefit of the people being cared for. Whether or not they require sedation (and many challenging children do at times to keep their caregivers safe) will depend on their behaviour. It’s not automatic that you’re sedated in a group home setting.

Oh I should add, the parents are doing fine money wise because of all the benefits they get and have more money than a lot of people.
I wouldn't swap my life for theirs though.

I know one of these children. Non verbal autistic male teen who has violent meltdowns. He goes to school in a taxi with a driver and carer to try to stop him getting out of the car while it's moving or attacking the driver. He is very, very carefully and skilfully managed to reduce meltdowns but his carers still get beaten up sometimes.
In the past people like him would live in big institutions and be heavily drugged to keep them manageable. Now they have a team of carers, 50k a year special school, taxis the 20 miles to and from, neither parent work because they can't because he takes all their time (they have no other children). The alternative for him is the institution/drugging of the past though. An option that no longer exists anyway.

The problem is, even if you are productive, you can end up earning a pittance, and it can't just be solved by working harder or getting a better education because there simply are not enough decent-paying jobs to be had.

@LivingDeadGirlUK Poverty is not caused by the better off! Who are the 1%? The people who own businesses and employ people? Those paying the most tax so others get the NHS and befits? Have a go at them and you get less and less money via taxation as business moves elsewhere. And it will.

Most people have access to decent enough education to be productive. Too many do not want to be productive. We’ve relied on imported labour and now we are cross about it. As for blaming all our woes on the 14 years of a conservative government! I’d grow up a bit politically and economically. Labour encouraged a foreign workforce. Labour encouraged the city of London to be a major powerhouse of money and tax generation. Labour borrowed a lot of money and did PFI contracts. Governments of all stripes make mistakes - you cannot blame just one party for everything. It’s politically illiterate.

Yes. I do wonder about this and the ethical dilemma of it a lot. My cash-strapped council which has no money for so many services they would make our city a better place have made the news for approving a contract worth more than a million a year which covers the care of just one young person.

But in general, yes, I'm historically Labour-supporting and feel like many others on this thread. I know they have inherited a mess and that the Tories have caused so many of these issues, but I have the same concerns as many. More people than ever unable to work and living off the state, towns and cities with huge populations of people who will not integrate and have imported values we simply do not want here, everywhere looking an absolute state...

The OP never said that. Stop reaching to try and ‘prove’ your assumed narrative that doesn’t exist in OPs posts. You’re judging OP by your standards / thought processes, that much is crystal clear.

Just look at the way you described the immigrant crime and 'white' crime in your post that I quoted. If you really believe you have this nuanced view it would be a good idea to dissect your own posts a bit.

The issue is cultural, but its not brown people bringing a different culture into our country and ruining things, its the culture of blaming the poor for poverty that is directly caused by the 1%. The culture of belief in 'the worthy poor', which you have demonstrated with your knife wielding immigrants/ poor white drug addicts comment. The culture of assuming that anyone living in poverty must deserve to live in poverty, because they didn't work hard enough. That's the culture that is destroying the country.

I’d guess you’re speaking for thousands if not millions of people. Certainly I agree 💯.

The tories may have been bad at times, but this Labour government is atrocious. Ruining the country and many people’s lives. No jobs, no grad jobs, no summer jobs, no school places, no sen provision, stopping people that try for more, hurting disabled people, old people, children. Business owners. Who aren’t they hurting? Train drivers and government workers by the look of it. They disgust me. 🤢 😢

Oh and yes of course most people are sex realists. Most people don’t think women have penises or that men should be in women’s sports / changing rooms / toilets. Fck off Labour. Even my ex staunch lefty guardian reading brothers hate Labour now. That’s a feat.

I think it’s too late. What’s the answer though? Stop all benefits and start again? Whatever is needed, will have to be quite radical to solve the deterioration of UK society rather than tinkering around the edges by making changes to PIP for example. But how else do you fix the issues for the masses?

I do think it’s good that people are now questioning this level of immigration and benefits, however I wonder if it’s too late to actually stop the decline.

Can you share on what basis? What’s the threshold? Or who do you propose should be taxed and in what circumstances?

Absolutely.

I disagree with this. I actually think the biggest issues are cultural. There are many families and sometimes even communities where they have attitudes that are incompatible with a functional and productive society. You could pay these people infinite amounts of money and pay for as many outreach workers as you like but ultimately their attitudes remain the same. They have no interest in education, work or even being a useful member of society in a broader sense. They are the families that allow their kids to terrorise (other poor) people on their estate and engage in other anti social activities. That don't even try to parent their kids properly and often introduce them to drugs and alcohol themselves. It is intergenerational and it seems to intensify every generation, all funded by the tax payer.

I know I will get flamed for this but I grew up around families like this and saw how entrenched attitudes are. Throwing more money at these families won't improve things unless you can break the cycles.

The videos circulating of Birmingham and their crisis with waste collection are absolutely appalling. People moaning about rats whilst littering.

i think people with different cultures and values, and those who haven’t had them instilled from their parents are just ruining it for the rest of us. I live down a 60mph road and have to cross a grass verge to walk home from the village. I can collect a bag of rubbish each time. Little picturesque village. It’s disgusting.

You’ve lost your youthful idealism/ naievete and become a seasoned traveller, is all. Wisdom comes with age.

Precisely!

So are you suggesting that you should tax based on assets more generally? So you should be taxed on your capital?