To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

Yeah, I'm not sure I see the logic either. The first parent is asked for a slushee: they can say yes or no. The fact that this means it's more likely other parents will be in the same situation seems neither here nor there to me? Plus, in reality, these places normally have the slushees very prominently displayed and advertised, so other kids will clock on that they're available and ask for them whether or not the first child gets on.

I say no. Sometimes it is more hassle than it's worth, but I'm with you on all of your points!

How is any of it selfish? OP doesn’t say or suggest anyone else wanted the cupcake, the suggestion seems to be simply that the child shouldn’t ever have another because they are a child.
Why is it selfish to order my child the drink they want?
Why would I put the thoughts and feelings of others above my own child? Do you hear yourself? I should say no to my child in a situation I don’t particularly care about because another parent doesn’t want to hold their own boundary?
If you want your child to drink squash and not a slushie that’s your call, I’m allowed to let mine have one on a special occasion like a party and it’s not my job to say no to my child simply to make your parenting easier.
That is actually what is selfish here.

Imagine being so obtuse to call someone else selfish because they aren’t living life by your parenting rules and you can’t parent your own children. Mental.

I have never, ever encountered in real life a parent who doesn't use the word 'no' - and I live in exactly the kind of middle class, hippy stronghold that people claim it is rife in. I see plenty of wet parenting but only on MN do I hear of parents who don't use the word no, either in principle or in practice. I would very much like to see an example of the 'children professionals' who say you must always praise children and never say negative things?

In this example you could maybe see how you treating your child differently may impact the other parents? Yes they can just say no, but if you hadn’t allowed it in the first place they wouldn’t all be needing to then do damage control.

Except Theres absolutely no reason why one should do the same than everyone else.
Like I was probably the stricter parent in the group. I’m sure no one would have had an issue if I had said NO to my dcs whilst the others said Yes. It’s only an issue if the parent says YES but you don’t want to AND you have a problem saying NO in the first place…..

Which is an interesting pov when the OP feels it’s other parents that have problem with saying no ….

Unfortunately the vibe from children professionals in the UK is now to always praise children and try not to say negative things, so people stopped saying 'No'. Unfortunately this is what we are being told and taught. What are the outcomes for the children when they grow up - we can all see for ourselves.

Why assume that other parents don’t get overwhelmed because we don’t struggle to say no?

Maybe some parents find other things overwhelming just not saying no to their children.

My parents were way more strict than I am to the point I just didn’t ask because I already assumed it was a no.

I tell my children no and why they’re being told no. My middle tears up when he is told no. I don’t like to see him cry but I also know that my reasons for saying no are necessary and for good reason whether he likes it or not and depending on what it is I may offer a compromise or a different solution.

Obviously this is age-dependent.

I also know he will remember things I say so and will use my logic towards me so more reason to stick to boundaries and rules. Makes us proud that he listens.

Hang on, since when was that the responsibility of other parents?

If our kid wants an ice cream for example, I’m not really bothered if someone else isn’t buying them for theirs. Surely that’s got absolutely nothing to do with us 😂

I had a friend whose young dd didn’t like her talking to me, and so taking the attention away from her. She would literally turn her mother’s face towards HER, away from me, whenever she tried to speak to me.

The mother was (is) a lovely person, but a complete doormat for her kids. Just too ‘nice’!

Because all of what you’ve just said is incredibly selfish and you need to teach your child to be able to look at the bigger picture and take into account the the thoughts and feelings of others!

You are the parent OP is finding difficult and I’m inclined to agree 🤦🏼‍♀️

In this example you could maybe see how you treating your child differently may impact the other parents? Yes they can just say no, but if you hadn’t allowed it in the first place they wouldn’t all be needing to then do damage control.

So the kid should know that they should be patient and wait - they'll 'get over it' - but an adult will not be able to wait while you sort out the kid, and they will conclude that you 'don't give a shit about them' if you ask them to hold on a moment? Is that definitely right? Will the adult explode into a thousand pieces?

I try and avoid catching up with friends when my (or their) children are present, because I don't like or enjoy the inevitable feeling of being split in two. However, when it does happen I think any adult should accept that someone who is in charge of a child is sometimes going to have to interact with them - it's not reasonable or realistic to think you're going to be able to have long, uninterrupted chats if there are small children there. I mean, my youngest can't yet take himself off to the toilet if we're in a public place, so yes, if he says 'mummy I need a wee' then I'll break off mid-sentence to deal with it - I think everyone involved, including my friend, thinks this is a better solution than him wetting himself while waiting for the grown-up conversation to be done!

We have “absolute no”s that are not movable and absolutely boundaries, and otherwise it depends on the situation.

We never say no for the sake of saying no. If we’ve said no, it’s for a reason, and we’re sticking to it. “Because I said so” isn’t an answer in our house.

What’s wrong with a child having another cupcake after it’s been left over after everyone already had one?
Why is a parent not allowed to buy their child a slushie because other children are having squash?
If I’m at a kids party I’ll usually buy a coffee or a beer if it’s in a function room, why would I not let my child pick they drink they want at a party when it’s at my cost?
It’s rules for the sake of rules and being arbitrarily hardline isn’t necessarily better.

I think most parents are fine with saying no. Maybe they don’t want to say no in some of these scenarios. What is wrong with letting their child have a slush at a party? Why do you think they need to say no to this?

Not all instances of saying no is an example of ideal parenting though. If the reason for saying no is simply because you can't afford it, then that's an adult problem, not the child's. Many requests are potentially quite reasonable but get declined because the parent doesn't want to spend money on something. It's not necessarily a virtue to teach a child they cannot have something because you don't have the money for it.

Really? We're all overwhelmed and annoying kids like this just make it harder for all of us. Also the point was it's harder to say no. Not saying no is the easy way out

That's a very fair point. I think the thread is cause for introspection rather than judgement, particularly when it involves us viewing the parenting infrequently or as a one off.

Agree, but all the self righteousness here of people claiming they find it very easy to say "no" is not helpful. A bit more sympathy would help overwhelmed parents.

I think some of the examples in the OP are social situations where the parents don't want to ruin the event for everyone else by letting their child work themselves up into a tantrum. If they're little children and they're still learning how to process disappointment, you can say no but there's a risk that they're going to be really loud. I can see why if one parent bought their child a slushy at a birthday party, the other parents felt they had to as well - it's not fair on the hosts to have loads of screaming kids. And I know the classic MN line is 'I would just tell my child to stop having a tantrum or we're going straight home' but that would also be pretty shit for the birthday child and their parents. Whereas when it's just you and your children, it's easy to say no and just ride out the whining/crying/etc.

It's also easy for me to say no to slushies because my child wouldn't want one. So in that specific example I'd look like an amazing parent.

Sums it up pretty well! I prioritise friends by arranging kid free catch ups where possible but if kids are there they are my priprity

The cupcake one: should have asked if anyone else would like more, and if anyone did split it. Then it's each person's responsibility to do what they want with it.

The TV thing is awful and I wouldn't be attending another playdate with that person.

The slushy thing is daft to be annoyed about, that person's choice to buy it for their child, and if the other parents find it hard to say no to buying one that's on them. How hard is it to just say no, we're not getting a slushy?

Not asking your child to wait while you finish your conversation is rude to the conversation partner.

I don't think this is all regular parent stuff OP. You're just around some really lax feckless parents.

"But your friend will just know that you don’t really give a shit about her and that you do not value her time and patience"

Do they know that? Even before I became a parent I understood that when I visited my friends homes with their kids there that they were a parent first and I would need to be patient while they responded to their child? I also go expecting to engage with their child since I'm in their home and we were all hanging out together. Even then I knew that was my friends juggling demands on their time and wasn't reflective of my relationship with them. I think it's pretty universally known that playdates aren't the easiest catch ups! When me and my friends meet up sometimes we're even at opposite sides of the play park because of the layout and the kids ages or some needing more help than others. Or maybe a child is being clingier than usual because they're feeling under the weather or it's been bucketing and they're going stir crazy in the house all day. I think there's something about being able to recognise what's developmentally appropriate for kids as well, some kids will find it harder to sit and play quietly than others either through age or ability. If my friend thinks me acknowledging my child's needs over theirs as an adult then I don't think I'd have much patience for that! As an adult you should be able to read and understand the situation (provided you're nt) but kids aren't always able to do that.

“And there are times when the reason a child’s resilience is teetering on a knife edge is because I haven’t been mindful of their valid needs, prioritising my own desire to spend time with a friend, and it isn’t fair to turn that into a discipline issue.”

So what about the poor friend in this scenario? A child will get over it. Being told to wait a minute as mummy is talking will not make them explode into a thousand pieces (emergencies not withstanding obvs). In fact it will teach them a whole load of good lessons about patience and turn taking.

But your friend will just know that you don’t really give a shit about her and that you do not value her time and patience as you sit there distracted, pandering to your child’s whims. It’s just so selfish and self indulgent. It would be kinder not to bother.

There is always a degree of "pick your battles" but the problem is, metaphorically speaking, that if you don't pick any battles at all an opt for an easy life in the moment every time, you, and the child will be fighting battles for ever more.

There are times where I've faltered and just bought the ice cream so I can have a moments peace. I don't think that makes me a bad parent. But its when you give in every time to yours, your family, your fellow humans and ultimately and importantly, your child's detriment that we fall down.

Exactly this. Different boundaries from different parents and if you don’t like how parents parent their child, avoid them or limit your time with them.

I have no issue saying no to mine even if it means we leave early. I do ask why they do or want xyz unless it is something that I’ve already said no to.

The cupcake thing I would have just ate what the child didn’t eat. No waste.

Tv for a play date wouldn’t bother me as long as what was being watched was age-appropriate and depends how old the children are . Did that as a kid where friend and I would sit and watch tv together and if it means the children are staying in one place and aren’t wandering through someone else’s house while I’m talking to their parent I don’t mind. Plus, there is a screen time limit in our house and a bit lax on the weekends so I already know how much mine are having and how much I accept. How much parents use for their own children is theirs to determine, not for me.

The slushy thing, just tell my child no. What food/drink parents buy and give isn’t my business and has no bearing on me or my child. Just because they see another child get something, they know it doesn’t mean they will too. If you struggle to say no in those instants, that’s your problem, not the parents.

The roleplay thing is dependent on age, how long it goes on for and what we were discussing beforehand. Something serious, be annoyed. Something light like a show we’ve been watching, not bothered as long as it wasn’t constant and we weren’t pressed for time.

The hitting thing, I would say something if the parents’ didn’t.

I’ve seen this sometimes, but nowhere near the level you experience it. Most of the parents I encounter are pretty on it, I see more people scolding their kids for what seems like minor things than just letting them run amok.

The times I have seen parents not step in is typically birthday parties where their kids are disrupting the entertainer even when the entertainer is asking them to stop. I just remind myself not to accept play dates or invite them to a party if we did have one.