To think that most parents find saying ‘no’ to children very difficult?

Wow putting TV on for a playdate, that is a whole new level of disturbing!

I said YABU as some of those things would not bother me. Like the cupcake one. As long as the other people there are adults who cares if a child gets a second cupcake?

It’s also ok to find it difficult to say No as long as you still say No. I found it difficult when mine were little as dealing with tantrums is shit. Had to brace myself each time. Especially when you know so many other parents, with placid natured children, as so judgey.

So you are damned if you do and damned if you don’t as a parent. ( well, Mother, Fathers seem to have praise upon praise heaped on them merely for being in the presence of their children).

Thankfully most of my friends are not like this. However, I teach many children who are the product of this! They are doing them no favours in the long run.

We invited friends over for a playdate and the mum put the TV on in my house, for their child very. We rarely watch TV. My child was stood there like with the look of disgust on their face like what's going on, don't you want to play with me? My kid dutifully sat down with friend to watch, then grabbed the remote and turned it off telling friend a very firm "No! you're here to play so let's play." and then disappeared to play. The friend burst into tears and the mum was trying to cajole them, close to tears themselves 😂 I was very proud of my 4yo for saying no in that moment.

This is my experience through working with children.

They are not naughtier, they are less used to having to accommodate another person, therefore less used to hearing no, and yes in my very up to date experience are the ones that react worst when their parents tell them no.

With regards to the OPs examples; someone with more than one kid has to work out what to do if one asks for slushy, there’s one cake left. I actually can’t remember the other examples, TV on play date? Because you can’t automatically just say yes there becomes more of a thought process…what happens if I say yes to one…etc? If you have just one child then you deal with just one reaction.

Interestingly this is generally the case with just the parents. Children quickly realise that we simply can’t prioritise their needs over others in a childcare setting. They’re needs are equal to everyone else whilst with us.

I clearly say no a lot as my kids often know not to ask and I have heard them say before mum won't let us 😂

I do agree it is sometimes just differences in ways of doing things. I remember a day out with a group of friends. No sooner had we got there one girl started pestering for an ice cream. We all moved on but next minute she was back with one as her mum let her have one. The rest of us just gave each other a look and said we would do that later, we had only just arrived and that we wanted to do other things.

I do think it's rude for a child to just want to watch TV when their friend is there and I would kick them off or tell them no play dates.
There is definitely a dependence on screens these days - I noticed yesterday in the supermarket lots of toddlers in pushchairs holding a phone or tablet while the mum shopped. I get that it might be a boring job but life can be boring!

I think you just need to find people in tune with how you parent. I have a great friend who will message me before hand to say if she has given her daughter spending money/promised a particular treat so I have advance warning of whether to allow mine the same or to be prepared to say no and that friends daughter is getting that for whatever reason but they have had xyz instead.

Looking back with rose tinted glasses here! I was at school decades ago with many kids behaving appallingly while both teachers and parents turned a blind eye.

There have always been parents who say yes to their kids and parents who take too little interest - none of this is new.

For example - Charlie Bucket was nice, all the others were let down by parents - the book was written in the 60s. This idea that parenting is getting worse is ever-present.

But why would they hear it less if they're doing something 'naughty'? Anyway, the only children I know are are always well behaved. The others are usually terrible at sharing, the girls are worse and the girls are always the meanest "you can't play with my toys" etc. In my experience, we all have different experiences though 😉

Siblings develop sibling rivalry, having to 'accomodate someone else ALL the time' doesn't automatically make for peace and harmony.

You have quite an outdated view of only children!

I once worked with a child that "no" meant "persist for 5 minutes until I crack". She had perfected the broken record technique of badgering.

It was a residential that re-trained her. Multiple adults consistently sticking to the same plan. After that trip she did accept that "no" actually meant "that ain't happening"... when with us anyway. Not so much at home.

Fortunately she was generally a pleasant child without any malice, it was just that her parents couldn't seem to break the habit of not bestowing any petty disappointment and just constantly gave in despite the toll on them. They seemed stuck on going down the path of least immediate resistance and exhausted from it.
The other fortunate thing was that they were so passive that they didn't mind other people saying no and intervening.

The big difficulty is when there's some kind of ideological strategy going on and parents resent any interference when other people bring in reasonable standards, and that's a trend that's become more prevelent over the last 10-15 years which has made managing children in group settings harder.

My parents weren't strict. Compared to my friends parents anyway. All 5 of us went to university, got good degrees and work in professional careers. We got told no less than all our friends. Not with material things but with things we wanted to do. Stayed home from school if overtired, watched TV all we liked, I'm 42 but I spent a fair bit of my evening on man messenger to school friends with noone worrying about screentime.

Yep and it's times when it's not saying no but there's a choice so your child is hearing no. If we go out for fast food lunch my daughter wants McDonald's, my son wants subway. We're not doing both. Someone's having to compromise. If they were an only child there'd be instances they could just choose with no pushback.

I think things have changed a lot over recent years.

My childen are adults now and I never had a problem saying no. My eldest had two friends at primary whose parents couldn't say no.

One set of parents ended up having parenting classes when their child was a teen and the other had a number of fixed term exclusions from school due to behaviour.

In schools now, the worst behaviour comes from the children whose parents don't say no either because they are very nice middle class parents and they don't want to limit their children's self expression in any way or because they're disinterested and don't care what the children are doing as long as it's not inconveniencing them.

Three kids in and I step right back from friendships like the ones described in the OP. I want friendships where the kids on the whole play amicably and non-destructively and saying something like “I’m talking to my friend now, off you go to play” is acceptable and understood. Obviously young kids need guidance and support but “we do x and not y” is part of that. I don’t say no often and allow them plenty of freedom but when I do even my preschoolers know that it means no.

We took my kids to a football match recently, they love football, especially my daughter and it was a women's game so less busy. They each loved it but also got overwhelmed with a noise a few times and had ear defenders and my ND son hates ear defenders so had earphones and 5 mins of a video to take him out of the hullabaloo for a brief break. Hands video back but keeps headphones on. Sorts the hating ear defenders issue

Slightly off topic but about screen time - I was watching England v France on Saturday & the camera kept focusing on 2 kids in the crowd on their tablets, wearing over the ear headphones. If you take kids to a big event, why aren’t they watching it?! Having said that, they may have been neurodivergent. But you do see kids on screens SO much, even very little ones with Mum’s phone going round the supermarket.

Ridiculous.

Some of the situations you mention are just personal preference and quite subjective.

There's no right or wrong about whether to say no to a child wanting a slushie or a cupcake or some TV time or attention from a parent - it's up to the individual parents to make that decision in the context of the moment.

I think you're being a bit judgemental about those things and as part of a balanced approach they are fine.

But I do agree it's not good for children to have the world always revolve around them.

My DCs' sibling relationship can frequently be... fractious (but that also has the complicating factor of clashing ND social and sensory needs to complicate things). What's harder to notice is when they are getting on well and just chatting, or co-operatively gaming together online in seperate parts of the house (they're secondary age)

1:1 and either child is delightful.

They also both have very calm, stable friendships with no drama.

They just save it up for when their brother is around.

"No" was always a normal, proportionate part of my vocabulary anyway. I worked with young people prior to having children. I would have used it if I'd had one child (and did as he was a toddler). Having two with differing needs, I can not accomodate every request and have two functioning, happy children. With one child (and their reduced expense) it is easier to indulge resquests.

Thinking about it, I probably do indulge more when they're 1:1. Yesterday I was at an event with one of them. He ended up with an ice cream and a McDonalds because it fitted proportionately with the event and our plans for the day. The cost was reduced and there were no arguments of accomodating child 2's preferences. Child 2 was out with DH and also got smilar benefits.
If the ice cream and McDonalds hadn't seemed like appropriate requests, it would have been a "no"

They're not the world's easiest children, but they do know what "no" is and that badgering is futile (and also that there is usually a sensible reason; we're not just being contrarian on a power trip)

There is literally no reason an only child is parented and corrected less and therefore hears “no” less. Stop projecting these utterly ridiculous generalisations.

In my experience it is the only children that react worst to being told no. Simply because they hear it less. This is through no fault of the child or even parents really, it’s just simply because they don’t need to accommodate someone else ALL the time.

Also, a lot of the only children I know are very well behaved in front of their parents and absolutely different creatures when their parents aren't there because their parents helicopter constantly and intervene in every disagreement. By necessity rather than design I have to let a certain amount of freedom and independence happen as I'm only 1 person and I think that's actually good for kids. They need to learn to navigate things themselves a bit

So libgs push the boundaries more with each other than with other kids. Because they know them and love them and know they'll fall back into friendship even if they wind each other up. If you have an only child and are an only child sibling relatio ships can look wild but it's similar to kids behaving their worst for their parents. My kids might argue but then 15 mins later they're giving each other glitter tattoos, making each other friendship bracelets and playing Pokemon and princesses. They learn rekatio ship repair after co flict which is really important

My kids WILL fight with each other and I always correct it (a lot of people don't which I think is a mistake) but they don't take that same energy to their non sibling friends. They share and take turns much more easily outside. Although neurotypical daughter finds tht much easier than my ND son despite him being 3 years older. Some kids have a harder time with it. Also sharing is something we seem to expect much more from kids than adults, noone expects an adult to pass their new car round for everyone to have a turn but plenty of parents expect a kid to share say a new scooter.

It must just be the people I see, it's always siblings fighting and the ones who never want to share. All the only children I know are really well behaved.