... to think that Nigel Farage will be our next PM?

It doesn’t have to just be that or the US though @SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius?

A doctor in France earns far more than a Doctor in the NHS.

UK HCP salaries are not high in international comparisons, my DD earned 2x in Australia than what she now gets in the NHS.

But @blossomtoes is correct, you moan about the tax burden not being shared but then moan moan moan about people being paid well.. which is it?

Don't you realise that the main reason the tax burden has fallen on to the top 5% of earners is because the Tories held down wages for so many, esp in the public sector.

We've had many other maternity scandals since 2010 and MH ones too... and no one has said the NHS was perfect either.... i can tell you of issues in the French & Swedish health systems too, you re dealing with humans, that can mean error.

No one with any independent thought thinks the NHS was worse in 2010 than it was under the Tories.

Just a smoke screen for the disaster that has been the 14 years of Tory govt.

Those highly paid doctors are also paying a lot of tax and are also leaving in droves. I know which we’ll miss more.

Yes so how will the rest? I guess we’ll find out.

I'm not sure what your point is.

Labour are scaring off millionaires.

Doctors are greedy and already paid handsomely and will have huge pensions with nearly 30% employers contribution.

Both can be true surely?

Oh make up your mind @Quirkswork. In one post it’s the avarice of the junior doctors with their already astounding benefits, pensions and wages - on which they pay tax, lots of it. In the next it’s Labour are busy scaring off the 1% whose taxes mainly pay for it. Taxes (apart from employers NI) are precisely the same as they were when the Tories were in power.

There are many many many other options than just NHS vs. USA system.

I just don’t think people see that much of a difference between the main two parties now. Much of what people lambast Labour for were an issue under the Tories too.

Yes agreed. But how? We are becoming a health service with a country attached. And Labour are busy scaring off the 1% whose taxes mainly pay for it.

I would still rather have the NHS than the system they have in the USA, though, @Quirkswork.

Well however good or bad the NHS was in the olden days, it's not sustainable now. Too many people. And a dreadful economy so we can't pay for it. Notwithstanding the avarice of the junior doctors with their already astounding benefits, pensions and wages.

@blossomtoes I will see if I can work out how to link later and send through the links showing the absolute carnage that faced our maternity ward where women were turned away in labour and left in perilous situations all over .
The catastrophic storm of events that led to a massive surge in births and a shortage of midwives.

As well as Staffordshire hospital and others dangerously close to total collapse.

I worked in one of those hospitals. I can categorically assure you that the NHS had never been in better shape. Maybe stop telling people to google nonsense and look at patient satisfaction ratings - they were 70% in 2009, by 2022 they’d fallen to a record low of 29%.

Labour doesn't represent anyone anymore except some minorities and unfortunately the working class are clear they don't represent them .

So I don't know where any labour votes would come from ,sad .

Much will hinge on macrons visit this week ,there are calls to get a refund on the millions and millions we give France to simply watch boats get loaded up and wave them on their way.
I can't understand why Macron hasn't been held to account.

Cameron was that worried about Ukip/Farage that he bowed to their demands for a referendum.

In 2015, Cameron refused to rule out a coalition with UKIP, so Farage could have been deputy PM.....

Polling in 2013 predicted Ukip would get 80 MPs at the next GE.

The huge change, as well as the one you have mentioned, is that the prediction for the total number of Tory MPs in 2029 is just 81.....

A once great party that i have voted for in the past, may almost cease to exist in just a few years.

Well I'm not claiming that 500 votes on mumsnet is a good reprentative national poll. Obvs.

I'm saying how remarkable it is that the question is asked on (slightly lefty) mumsnet in the first place and that the current score is 59% yes. That's obviously not all people voting for Nigel! It's presumably just people that think, like him or loathe him, there is a possibility he could be our next PM. Which is a big change, as a few years ago that question would have been laughed at.

If he is PM I can only imagine the posts on here 😆. Orange Man Bad will have just been practicing.

It has changed a bit

It’s Labour who keeps going on about the Tories in every interview and post.

As Reform goes up. An outside party benefits from that fixation.

500 votes is hardly representative, nation polls indicate 28% support, Labour on 24%.
2 to 3% is considered within the margin of error in any poll.

UKIP was also considered to make a "break thorough" as well.....However....

.....another defection to Reform yesterday, the Tory party appears to be finished, echo's of the collapse of the Liberals in the 1920s.

So you re right, the next GE may well be a Reform vs Labour contest.

The Cons and their friends in the media need to wake up to the danger.

The poll for this thread is interesting. Nearly 500 votes and 59% thinking it's not unreasonable to think that Nigel Farage will be our next PM. Whether you support him or find that horrifying, it is remarkable how fundamentally things have changed in the last few years. The fact that question is now being asked for a start!

Can point me to the 25 Ambulances queuing outside of AE? the 72 hour delays to attend a stroke victim? the corridor wards? the 4 day waits in AE ?

The almost universal lack of NHS dentistry?

Based on exactly the same methodology, all Labours previous NHS targets were broken by 2015

Every single independent study into UK healthcare, shows steep declines in all aspects of healthcare over the last 10 to 15 years.

Did we have French standards of care in 2010? no we did not but its undeniable that the NHS is in a far worse state now than it was in 2010.

Nearing the end of labours reign under Blair and brown hospitals were in a dire state .
If you Google the headlines it's all there

Labour massaged figures .

How can we return people who destroy.their documents ?

We should have a rule no documents then x happens ( not a hotel in UK)