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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

... to think that Nigel Farage will be our next PM?

817 replies

ohime · 06/07/2025 11:04

Or, more accurately: AIBU to be afraid that truly nasty piece of work Nigel Farage who has, by all accounts, always been utterly useless at (or at least completely uninterested in) the actual business end of governing will be our next PM because everyone is so fed up with all the other parties being, variously or all at once, so corrupt, incompetent and useless that we've collectively abandoned all hope? I will never vote for Farage, who is a horrible man, or any of his party which keeps having to fire people for being just a teensy bit too overtly racist - but it seems from the polls that for many people the choice against the status quo outweighs what we may be choosing. (For an example, I can't believe that Farage's stated position that DOGE in the US didn't go far enough with its swinging cuts to the social safety net would be popular with UK voters who recently elected a government on the basis that it would reverse years of Tory austerity... not that that's worked out so well...)

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Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 21:06

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 20:58

Some immigration can be positive though. Yes, we need to find a way to limit asylum seekers to a manageable level. I think everyone agrees with that. But we should accept that there are plenty of skilled immigrants that can add to communities both culturally and through taxes.

I can see though, that if I was still living where I was raised I wouldn’t feel like that. I would be looking for blame for my circumstances and lack of opportunity. The issues within these communities are ingrained. Lack of education, little parental support/guidance, lack of positive male role models, drugs, criminality. Yes - we need
more resources to stage meaningful interventions but you also need engagement.

The problem is, during the Brexit debate people evoked the spirit of the blitz. But during that time the upper tax rate was something like 97%. That's how we were able to prevail and after the war build the welfare state. People were in it together. I don't think Farage, or Jenrick or the wealthy leave donors had any intention of ssurrendering some of their fortune in absorbing the worst impacts of Brexit so the less well of didn't feel the worst consequences. Or agreeing to be taxed more so that the parts of society that were really suffering saw some improvement in their lives
In fact they all made more money, while ordinary people that voted for change because they were desperate suffered. And will do again if given a chance.

GoodbyeRosie · 06/07/2025 21:04

Absolutely.

We are now a populist right wing country; the general public gave Labour 5 minutes before they turned on them.

This website is a microcosm of the real world. Unrepentant, uncaring, bigoted Reform voters at every turn.

I think Conservative & Reform will form a Government together after the next GE, With Farage elected leader and Prime Minister.

It will of course be a disaster, socially & economically, but it's what the people want..a snake oil salesman with one message and a bunch of unworkable policies.

We'll be just like the U.S.A. and Trump.

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 21:02

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 20:58

@SquishedMallow https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html.
40% of the Swiss population over 15 years is from a migrant background. 30% first generation (born elsewhere). Whether that's good or not is an internal debate for them. But if you want to argue Switzerland is a better country because of it's immigration policies then you end up making the opposite point.

Is that about illegal immigrants/refugees is it ? The kind we're having problems with here ? (Thought not )

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 20:58

@SquishedMallow https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html.
40% of the Swiss population over 15 years is from a migrant background. 30% first generation (born elsewhere). Whether that's good or not is an internal debate for them. But if you want to argue Switzerland is a better country because of it's immigration policies then you end up making the opposite point.

Population by migration status | Federal Statistical Office - FSO

https://www.bfs.admin.ch/bfs/en/home/statistics/population/migration-integration/by-migration-status.html

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 20:58

Parmaviollets · 06/07/2025 20:37

@Kitte321 so if we have dire locked in poverty and families we can't help why import more problems ?

The duty of any government is to it's people first

Why on earth have we come to this situation ,how have we come to a point where white young males are supposedly the most under privileged in the UK

Our education' system is known for being extremely left wing.

However I've worked in education during Brexit and I saw many educators trying to convince the young it was a bad idea and at that age ( 16 to 18) they didn't pay any attention at all.

But at uni it's different and lecturers can be far more influential

Some immigration can be positive though. Yes, we need to find a way to limit asylum seekers to a manageable level. I think everyone agrees with that. But we should accept that there are plenty of skilled immigrants that can add to communities both culturally and through taxes.

I can see though, that if I was still living where I was raised I wouldn’t feel like that. I would be looking for blame for my circumstances and lack of opportunity. The issues within these communities are ingrained. Lack of education, little parental support/guidance, lack of positive male role models, drugs, criminality. Yes - we need
more resources to stage meaningful interventions but you also need engagement.

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:51

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:37

Eh?

Sorry!!! I was backing you up. I was supposed to quote the person you quoted 🙈

TankFlyBossW4lk · 06/07/2025 20:47

ThejoyofNC · 06/07/2025 11:24

I certainly hope he is.

At this point just to upset the boring idiots who just keep saying "aaaah he's so racist" on repeat.

I'm neither boring nor an idiot. But he's a racist. Pure and simple. It's a fact.

Namitynamename · 06/07/2025 20:45

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 19:57

Articulate post, so thankyou for that reply.

However, if you look at countries where they are not afraid to say "no" to mass immigration: they just do not have the problems that the UK and France in particular have, who's level of illegal migration is higher. Switzerland for example quite simply doesn't want immigrants/refugees . Their country is extremely ordered. Nobody shouts "bigot. Racist" at them. Because people respect them. In the UK the more we've bent over backwards to accommodate every single minority group , the less respect we've obtained. Unfortunately, that's kind of how humanity (for some reason) works : the more you give, the more you'll be required to give. The more lenient the boundaries, the more they'll be stretched. We've proved that really (look at the country !) sometimes a level of reasonableness Is needed. An ability to say a flat "no" to unreasonable requests. An ability to smell bullshit and call it out (people fleeing persecution do not pass by a load of safe European countries. The end ) they might want to be near family /English speakers? Well they don't have that luxury if they're fleeing persecution, it's just common sense. If you're running away from a knife wielder, you hide in the nearest safe place until opportunities afford you more.

Switzerland has Nazi gold though. Thats a simplistic answer but it is also a very small country made rich by being the world's banker. It's pretty but also filled with regulations/rules around behaviour that most British people would find stifling. And they do have immigration, including people from outside Europe. I know someone who lives in Switzerland and she is from Cameroon. It's problems/advantages compared to Britain have nothing to do with immigration really. We probably do tolerate more diversity of behaviour/cooking smells in people from other places than Switzerland but we also tolerate more diverse behaviour from white British born than the Swiss tolerate from the Swiss.

A lot of Britain's issues were worsened by Brexit. That doesn't mean people were wrong to vote for Brexit - they couldn't see the future and even if they could maybe it is still worth the cost for sovereignty. But it's just a fact that the price of sovereignty was the new phenomena of small boats and increased migration from outside the EU (regular and non regular). As well as a cist to the economy so less for the government to spend, less farming subsidies. Etc.

But Farage will have known leaving the EU would result in leaving agreements that then led to more irregular migration. He knew and he lied to people and he's still lying when he pretends to be shocked by the small boats that we are all arguing about.

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:40

Doitrightnow · 06/07/2025 20:30

Trump is literally a criminal. People may have valid concerns over many things, but voting for a morally bankrupt person is irresponsible. I don't need to engage with Trump supporters, I'm not running for office in the US.

And everyone lies sure, but I don't know anyone who has been sacked multiple times for lying or led the country to self-harm by plastering lies on a massive bus. Not all lies are equal.

Farage is a dangerous charlatan and I'd like to think people will see through him, but recent history suggests not.

I agree. But people have a vote in a democracy. My point is calling people stupid/dumb just plays into the hands of Trump, Reform etc.

mum2jakie · 06/07/2025 20:39

bobby81 · 06/07/2025 14:26

Lots of people where I live are really pleased with the decisions our new Reform led Council are making. They have made some really good decisions & acted quickly. I’m as surprised as anyone by how well they are doing (very early days obviously!)

Which council is this? We are Reform led in Staffs and the only change we've seen so far is the removal of Pride flags!

Parmaviollets · 06/07/2025 20:37

@Kitte321 so if we have dire locked in poverty and families we can't help why import more problems ?

The duty of any government is to it's people first

Why on earth have we come to this situation ,how have we come to a point where white young males are supposedly the most under privileged in the UK

Our education' system is known for being extremely left wing.

However I've worked in education during Brexit and I saw many educators trying to convince the young it was a bad idea and at that age ( 16 to 18) they didn't pay any attention at all.

But at uni it's different and lecturers can be far more influential

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:37

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:20

Also, you're making the people you listen to exclusive - 'claims you can't 'back up'. So your opinion is null and void because you can't produce a research paper to back it up ? Lived experience and observation and finding natural correlation obviously means nothing then. You know full well that many non university educated people will be unable to produce these research articles you so wish for. And that is another way of concluding "your opinion doesn't matter ".

I've looked at research long enough to know full well that it can say anything you want it to say.

Eh?

BIossomtoes · 06/07/2025 20:32

BlueSlate · 06/07/2025 19:50

They certainly didn't think WFP for the elderly would be stopped, or that disability payments would he attacked or that council housing tenure would be under threat.

How is council housing (what’s left of it) tenure under threat?

Kitte321 · 06/07/2025 20:31

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 19:57

Articulate post, so thankyou for that reply.

However, if you look at countries where they are not afraid to say "no" to mass immigration: they just do not have the problems that the UK and France in particular have, who's level of illegal migration is higher. Switzerland for example quite simply doesn't want immigrants/refugees . Their country is extremely ordered. Nobody shouts "bigot. Racist" at them. Because people respect them. In the UK the more we've bent over backwards to accommodate every single minority group , the less respect we've obtained. Unfortunately, that's kind of how humanity (for some reason) works : the more you give, the more you'll be required to give. The more lenient the boundaries, the more they'll be stretched. We've proved that really (look at the country !) sometimes a level of reasonableness Is needed. An ability to say a flat "no" to unreasonable requests. An ability to smell bullshit and call it out (people fleeing persecution do not pass by a load of safe European countries. The end ) they might want to be near family /English speakers? Well they don't have that luxury if they're fleeing persecution, it's just common sense. If you're running away from a knife wielder, you hide in the nearest safe place until opportunities afford you more.

It’s a very difficult topic and I don’t disagree with either of you.
I grew up in a deprived West Yorkshire town and did see many issues caused by long term immigration (many families now second generation). No go areas, deprivation and the grooming gangs that targeted vulnerable white girls in my very underprivileged school.

I also saw many other issues though. White families with generations claiming benefits and up to no good. Many notorious criminals. The kids were never engaged with education and really, stood little chance of becoming anything other than a criminal. Again, no go areas in council estates.

There are so many issues in deprived areas. It would take decades and decades to unpick. Immigration is often an easy scapegoat, though probably exacerbates the issues.

mrshoho · 06/07/2025 20:30

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:20

Also, you're making the people you listen to exclusive - 'claims you can't 'back up'. So your opinion is null and void because you can't produce a research paper to back it up ? Lived experience and observation and finding natural correlation obviously means nothing then. You know full well that many non university educated people will be unable to produce these research articles you so wish for. And that is another way of concluding "your opinion doesn't matter ".

I've looked at research long enough to know full well that it can say anything you want it to say.

Very true, we see with our own eyes the negative changes to the areas we live in. I now avoid my local town and plan to move away once our elderly parents are no longer with us.

Doitrightnow · 06/07/2025 20:30

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 17:32

I’m not a Trump or Farage fan but I don’t agree with the way people are accused of “being stupid” because they vote a different way to you. And all politicians lie but they just call it “spin”.

Writing people of as dumb/stupid only pisses them off and plays right into Reform’s agenda.

We need to engage with all voters and acknowledge their genuine concerns about race, culture wars, migration etc. people are feeling really worried about the costs of people arriving on small boats, 100s of young men with different cultural values being housed near them, the burden on councils/services etc. Calling them stupid will not solve anything.

Trump is literally a criminal. People may have valid concerns over many things, but voting for a morally bankrupt person is irresponsible. I don't need to engage with Trump supporters, I'm not running for office in the US.

And everyone lies sure, but I don't know anyone who has been sacked multiple times for lying or led the country to self-harm by plastering lies on a massive bus. Not all lies are equal.

Farage is a dangerous charlatan and I'd like to think people will see through him, but recent history suggests not.

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 20:20

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:10

I literally quoted someone saying “people are stupid”! Someone else upthread also used the word “dumb”.

Also, you're making the people you listen to exclusive - 'claims you can't 'back up'. So your opinion is null and void because you can't produce a research paper to back it up ? Lived experience and observation and finding natural correlation obviously means nothing then. You know full well that many non university educated people will be unable to produce these research articles you so wish for. And that is another way of concluding "your opinion doesn't matter ".

I've looked at research long enough to know full well that it can say anything you want it to say.

Youdontseehow · 06/07/2025 20:10

CleverButScatty · 06/07/2025 17:35

I don't think I have seen anyone say that someone is stupid because of how they vote.

Only when they make claims they can't back up, or refuse to engage when questioned on the points they make.

I literally quoted someone saying “people are stupid”! Someone else upthread also used the word “dumb”.

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 19:57

CleverButScatty · 06/07/2025 19:46

Where do you think middle class people (hate that phrase anyway, it's a long time since we neatly fitted into classes) live, Mars?

In most of the country cities and towns have cheap and expensive areas but share town centres etc. Mumsnet is very London centric and gentrified I find, but that doesn't represent most of the UK.

My town centre has gone to the pits, but I don't see an over representation of immigrants in the issues. And we are near one of the areas where people have been housed in hotels etc.

And extremely left wingism at universities? Where did you go to uni? Mine certainly wasn't a hotbed of any such thing. It was much more boring sadly 😂

I genuinely think its just too easy to make immigrants a scapegoat for a lot that is wrong with our country... And almost all of the negatives that affect ordinary people (trying to get a GP appointment, hospital waiting lists, education, potholes, run down town centres as retail parks take over, lack of housing affordability, zero hours contracts, cost of living generally) have all got worse under the utterly right wing Tory government we had for the last 10 years.

You talk about people who go to uni as though they are really privileged. Not only are student bodies much more diverse, but the starting salaries in any public sector roles is barely above min wage and these people will absolutely be living in these working class communities and deprived areas we are talking about. Not all but they will definitely be represented. In my team salaries range from admin staff on 24k to experienced practitioners on 37k. Many single parents, some with disabilities etc. many live in council houses, ex council houses, are not in secure housing etc.

I think you're creating a divide where there isn't one.
I grew up in Knowsley, Merseyside on one of the most deprived areas in the UK. My family all still live there. There are so many issues on the borough, none of which are caused by immigration.

Articulate post, so thankyou for that reply.

However, if you look at countries where they are not afraid to say "no" to mass immigration: they just do not have the problems that the UK and France in particular have, who's level of illegal migration is higher. Switzerland for example quite simply doesn't want immigrants/refugees . Their country is extremely ordered. Nobody shouts "bigot. Racist" at them. Because people respect them. In the UK the more we've bent over backwards to accommodate every single minority group , the less respect we've obtained. Unfortunately, that's kind of how humanity (for some reason) works : the more you give, the more you'll be required to give. The more lenient the boundaries, the more they'll be stretched. We've proved that really (look at the country !) sometimes a level of reasonableness Is needed. An ability to say a flat "no" to unreasonable requests. An ability to smell bullshit and call it out (people fleeing persecution do not pass by a load of safe European countries. The end ) they might want to be near family /English speakers? Well they don't have that luxury if they're fleeing persecution, it's just common sense. If you're running away from a knife wielder, you hide in the nearest safe place until opportunities afford you more.

SamiSnail · 06/07/2025 19:51

He will be, I'd bet money on it. And it's a worry. It's all the fault of Labour, they've did this to themselves (and to the UK) really.

BlueSlate · 06/07/2025 19:50

HiddenRiver · 06/07/2025 12:42

Surely people are not that silly to believe “People voted for Labour expecting to get a Blair or whatever style government. The Labour of old.”?!

There is no money. It’s not possible. The landscape is entirely different to 1997. The easiest thing to do is spend money - but sadly Starmer didn’t inherit John Major’s amazing late 90s economy. The one with No aging population problems, no welfare dependency, etc etc.

Whoever is in office from now on has it rough and I’ve no idea why anyone would want to be in government tbh.

They certainly didn't think WFP for the elderly would be stopped, or that disability payments would he attacked or that council housing tenure would be under threat.

CleverButScatty · 06/07/2025 19:47

EdwinaIronside · 06/07/2025 19:39

The insult “racist” is thrown about with such abandon that it’s almost entirely lost any kind of meaning.

Edited

Can you give an example of when the term racist is used inappropriately?

CleverButScatty · 06/07/2025 19:46

SquishedMallow · 06/07/2025 19:29

Because they live in a leafy suburb, write fluffy assignments to work in their white collar jobs and the immigrants they work with are educated and working in high earning jobs. They're totally blinkered. I blame universities for spreading Extreme left wing ideologies onto impressionable teens and advertising grass roots working people as "racist bigots ". They'd be in for a very big suprise if they visited a rough block on an inner city or a deprived seaside town. All whilst allowed to attack the very people that are living in these situations and suffering for it. White lesser educated boys turning to Andrew tate not enough of a wake up call ? Men calling themselves lesbians? Men with different cultures regarding treatment of women sexually assualting young girls near refugee centres ? Nope: just racist bigots aren't they the people that dare put the heads above the parapet to voice concern and propose a link ?

And I can speak as someone that grew up in a deprived working class area from a very working class family but now have a life and job that our class obsessed society would label as "middle class" and I've seen both sides. I work with some fucking awesome immigrants: but I'm not so blinkered to realise that the represent the immigrants rocking up on boats into deprived towns. Completely different kettle of fish. But oh no : any opposition, just racist bigots hey. People gave had enough of being silenced. And it's the poor and lesser educated that are being successfully silenced. Guess they matter less ? Easier to call names ? Can't stick up for themselves articulately and veil it like the more educated can ? They've had enough and although I have no skin in the game : I've seen what they see.

Where do you think middle class people (hate that phrase anyway, it's a long time since we neatly fitted into classes) live, Mars?

In most of the country cities and towns have cheap and expensive areas but share town centres etc. Mumsnet is very London centric and gentrified I find, but that doesn't represent most of the UK.

My town centre has gone to the pits, but I don't see an over representation of immigrants in the issues. And we are near one of the areas where people have been housed in hotels etc.

And extremely left wingism at universities? Where did you go to uni? Mine certainly wasn't a hotbed of any such thing. It was much more boring sadly 😂

I genuinely think its just too easy to make immigrants a scapegoat for a lot that is wrong with our country... And almost all of the negatives that affect ordinary people (trying to get a GP appointment, hospital waiting lists, education, potholes, run down town centres as retail parks take over, lack of housing affordability, zero hours contracts, cost of living generally) have all got worse under the utterly right wing Tory government we had for the last 10 years.

You talk about people who go to uni as though they are really privileged. Not only are student bodies much more diverse, but the starting salaries in any public sector roles is barely above min wage and these people will absolutely be living in these working class communities and deprived areas we are talking about. Not all but they will definitely be represented. In my team salaries range from admin staff on 24k to experienced practitioners on 37k. Many single parents, some with disabilities etc. many live in council houses, ex council houses, are not in secure housing etc.

I think you're creating a divide where there isn't one.
I grew up in Knowsley, Merseyside on one of the most deprived areas in the UK. My family all still live there. There are so many issues on the borough, none of which are caused by immigration.

Fangisnotacoward · 06/07/2025 19:42

My only hope is now they have so many councillors the voting public will realise before the next GE exactly who they are.

The thought if reform in charge is terrifying. But they are talking to thousands of people who are disillusioned who feel like the other parties are ignoring them. Worrying times indeed.

MasterBeth · 06/07/2025 19:41

Farage is undeniably a racist:

hopenothate.org.uk/2024/09/24/everything-you-need-to-know-farage/