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My employer said I now have to go permanent

115 replies

user1471867483 · 05/07/2025 22:23

I have been working for a not-for-profit organisation for the last 10 years on their 'internal agency' for them to save money on high street agencies. They're making cuts now and I now have to become permanent or I go with 4 weeks notice. I love being temporary. I wasn't even looking for any other work as I'd assumed I could carry on working forever like this! I will also have to change my working hours working two hours later in the afternoon and starting two hours later. It will mean I'll have to come home in the dark now. They want my answer Monday. If I'd known a few months ago, I'd have applied for temp work elsewhere, but applying/looking takes time. What do I do? Temping suits me to a tee. We have a new director now who's decided to shake things up a little in our dept. TIA.

OP posts:
UsingAMansNameInAWomensWorld · 07/07/2025 10:22

Are you in Unison?

I believe even as a temp, as an NHS worker you can join

They offer legal advice as part of their membership

user1471867483 · 07/07/2025 09:38

Reddog1 · 07/07/2025 08:43

I think that this is one of those scenarios where the OP needs legal advice rather than opinions and keyboard HR “experts”. The chances are that the new director has taken advice from the relevant in-house team and isn’t doing anything wrong, but it’s worth getting a proper opinion I think because sometimes dynamic and ambitious people who are brought in to “shake things up” and don’t care about ruffling feathers, inadvertently overstep the mark. Maybe the OP’s household insurance covers legal costs, but if not I think that half an hour with a solicitor could be money well spent. Or ACAS if finances are a real issue.

I could always try ACAS.

OP posts:
user1471867483 · 07/07/2025 09:37

sonoonetoldyoulifewasgonnabethisway · 07/07/2025 08:25

Do you not get holiday pay? I thought even if agency, you still accrue holidays? I might be wrong so don't shoot me, seems odd

I get my holiday pay in my hourly rate 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
EleanorReally · 07/07/2025 09:00

i dont think legal advice would cut it
she can either accept the permanent contract, or not, in which case the temporary contract will end

Reddog1 · 07/07/2025 08:43

I think that this is one of those scenarios where the OP needs legal advice rather than opinions and keyboard HR “experts”. The chances are that the new director has taken advice from the relevant in-house team and isn’t doing anything wrong, but it’s worth getting a proper opinion I think because sometimes dynamic and ambitious people who are brought in to “shake things up” and don’t care about ruffling feathers, inadvertently overstep the mark. Maybe the OP’s household insurance covers legal costs, but if not I think that half an hour with a solicitor could be money well spent. Or ACAS if finances are a real issue.

sonoonetoldyoulifewasgonnabethisway · 07/07/2025 08:25

user1471867483 · 06/07/2025 08:44

It now means I can't work the hours I'm so used to and now I'll have to ask 'permission' for any holiday I want, where before I used to take off whenever I wanted as I didn't get paid! I'm also living vulnerably as I unexpectedly need to take a day off here or there if my mum becomes unwell 🤷

Do you not get holiday pay? I thought even if agency, you still accrue holidays? I might be wrong so don't shoot me, seems odd

user1471867483 · 07/07/2025 08:03

BunnyLake · 07/07/2025 07:40

I temped for years (when there was plenty of temp work). I loved it, psychologically I felt trapped if I was permanent. I’d love to temp now but there isn’t anything, it’s all gone very quiet. I’ve never temped at a job for more than a few weeks though and it was when I had less responsibilities (mortgage/children). And yes to the horror of job interviews, one of the reasons I temped was to not do interviews.

I'll have to take it and still look elsewhere while I'm in work. Yes, it's a psychological thing with perm work for me. I told them I like working with 'an open door', but rules are rules I guess.

OP posts:
BunnyLake · 07/07/2025 07:40

Gwenhwyfar · 06/07/2025 09:21

"I cannot understand why anyone would prefer to temp rather than the security of permanent?"

I worked with people who had 'temped' in the same place for years. For one, it was because it was difficult to get accepted as permanent there (ironic because she could obviously do the job), another was terrified of job interviews.

Some people probably don't want to be locked in by notice periods, which in some jobs are longer than they need to be for the type of job making it difficult to get any new job.

Edited

I temped for years (when there was plenty of temp work). I loved it, psychologically I felt trapped if I was permanent. I’d love to temp now but there isn’t anything, it’s all gone very quiet. I’ve never temped at a job for more than a few weeks though and it was when I had less responsibilities (mortgage/children). And yes to the horror of job interviews, one of the reasons I temped was to not do interviews.

user1471867483 · 07/07/2025 06:55

Mumdiva99 · 07/07/2025 06:22

You said you have put in a flexible working request. Did you do it formally? You couldn't have done as you aren't yet employed full time. Take the job and then apply for flexible working to change you hours. - it may be your directories changing your hours because yours don't support the business need.....but if you can still do you job at different hours then they will have to consider it.
https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working/applying-for-flexible-working

So kind of you, thank you.

OP posts:
Mumdiva99 · 07/07/2025 06:22

You said you have put in a flexible working request. Did you do it formally? You couldn't have done as you aren't yet employed full time. Take the job and then apply for flexible working to change you hours. - it may be your directories changing your hours because yours don't support the business need.....but if you can still do you job at different hours then they will have to consider it.
https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working/applying-for-flexible-working

Flexible working

Requesting flexible working, how to make an application, what business reasons an employer can give to reject an application and how to appeal.

https://www.gov.uk/flexible-working/applying-for-flexible-working

user1471867483 · 07/07/2025 06:09

GabriellaMontez · 06/07/2025 23:16

Look into dependent leave and carers leave. These should help you support your mum.

Will do. I haven't had a permanent job in 31 years, so there's a lot I don't know/have to get used to. Thank you for understanding; not many do (re mum). 👍

OP posts:
GabriellaMontez · 06/07/2025 23:18

Dunnocantthinkofone · 06/07/2025 17:27

You’ve had it your own way (illegally as it turns out) for way too long

The other employees must bloody hate working with you. Choosing your own hours, refuse to work over Christmas etc and just decide unilaterally to take holiday when you feel like it.

Not illegal. Not unfair.

She gets flexibility but doesn't get the security her colleagues have. No right to hours or unfair dismissal. Just different.

GabriellaMontez · 06/07/2025 23:16

user1471867483 · 06/07/2025 22:10

No, I don't. Holiday pay is included in my hourly rate.

Look into dependent leave and carers leave. These should help you support your mum.

user1471867483 · 06/07/2025 22:10

GabriellaMontez · 06/07/2025 13:15

So are you basically on a zero hours contract?

Do you get paid holidays?

No, I don't. Holiday pay is included in my hourly rate.

OP posts:
user1471867483 · 06/07/2025 22:09

EleanorReally · 06/07/2025 20:31

i was on nhs bank for many years and after 2 years in one position they twisted my arm to get a contract,
i did enjoy the flexibility prior to this
i am sure you will work something out
can you chose how many hours you do at least?

Edited

Yes, I can still do the hours I want, but just not at the time of day anymore.

OP posts:
user1471867483 · 06/07/2025 22:07

redfishcat · 06/07/2025 20:33

@TizerorFizzthere will be a Bank Staff Team in each NHS trust who actively recruit and support people who work on a zero hours contract. They will be able to advise the OP
In my Trust there are people who worked like this for at least ten years and all ward teams have a few bank regulars who they call on when permanent staff are ill, on Mat Leave, on holidays and have done the same job for years. No one would ever expect them to work Christmas or New Year, but some do for the enhanced pay

OP, talk to your staff bank team, talk to the union reps as this has massive implications for a lot of staff in your Trust

Thank you. Yes, I spoke to the team lead in my temp staffing office and he strongly advised me to take it (permanently) as he said he knows 20 people who didn't take their jobs permanently and now they're struggling, he said.

OP posts:
Mandylovescandy · 06/07/2025 20:41

I don't really understand what arrangement you have actually had here but it seems unusual and I can see why they want to do things properly. I agree about putting in a flexible working request to remain on your hours but it isn't going to solve the holidays issue. I empathise as I have a super flexible job and can pretty much take holiday whenever and work what hours I want but I don't think there are many jobs like that but why not take the job and see how it goes and start looking for something else if it doesn't work for you. Seems silly to complain about them only giving you 4 weeks notice as that is the temp terms

redfishcat · 06/07/2025 20:33

@TizerorFizzthere will be a Bank Staff Team in each NHS trust who actively recruit and support people who work on a zero hours contract. They will be able to advise the OP
In my Trust there are people who worked like this for at least ten years and all ward teams have a few bank regulars who they call on when permanent staff are ill, on Mat Leave, on holidays and have done the same job for years. No one would ever expect them to work Christmas or New Year, but some do for the enhanced pay

OP, talk to your staff bank team, talk to the union reps as this has massive implications for a lot of staff in your Trust

Unicorn34 · 06/07/2025 20:32

I would stay in the role permanently to ensure my bills are paid, but start applying for roles where the hours suit you better. If you leave you may end up unemployed for longer than you'd like or can afford.

EleanorReally · 06/07/2025 20:31

i was on nhs bank for many years and after 2 years in one position they twisted my arm to get a contract,
i did enjoy the flexibility prior to this
i am sure you will work something out
can you chose how many hours you do at least?

EleanorReally · 06/07/2025 20:30

user1471867483 · 06/07/2025 18:45

Yes!

in that case you are super lucky you have never been let go during times of cut backs.

and as to the pension question, i was on nhs bank and it is an automatic join to the pension

TizerorFizz · 06/07/2025 20:09

@redfishcat There s a category called a “worker”. As I posted below. ACAS lists the differences between employee and worker. The employer can change the contract of an employee by agreement but in this case, if termed a “worker” there’s a number of things they are not protected from - unfair dismissal being one. So the employer can ask the op to change to the same status as everyone else and doesn’t continue to get perks others don’t get. That’s fair to everyone.

redfishcat · 06/07/2025 19:35

Contact ACAS and try all the Union's as the NHS relies on bank staff on zero hours staff and so many people will be forced into permanent jobs they don’t want.
I don’t think they can do this to you, but you need to check with the likes of Unison and the Nursing Unions

Londonrach1 · 06/07/2025 19:32

Sounds like the new manager is a better manager than the previous one and trying to make things more legal employment wise. You don't sound like a team player as you do the hours you choose and refuse to cover Christmas for ten years.

AnSolas · 06/07/2025 19:26

Jellycatspyjamas · 06/07/2025 17:17

I think it’s the OP that’s claiming she’s in a temporary contract, her employer is trying to formalise her permanent status.

Yes and no

Her employer is not just documenting the current contract but rather her employer is also trying to change the contract (existing unwritten elements) to be something different.