My employer said I now have to go permanent

I saw the “I’ll have to come home in the dark” and laughed.

@brunettemic It was given as a reason for not wanting to change hours.

@GabriellaMontez Yes. She would have better employment conditions as a permanent employee but the op liked flexibility. There is no suggestion she wanted more hours. Op liked what she had but that’s going because political rhetoric is against her contract. Op knows what it is, she’s been doing it for 10 years. Some people like zero hours and flexibility. To others it’s evil!

Winter must be tricky then. The cinema too.

She has a zero hours contract. They arent going to give her anymore hours. They dont have to.

Its the downside of zero hours. You get flexibility but little security.

They're not changing her contract. They're offering her a new one.

@brunettemic She is.

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. Unless you're scared of the dark I guess.

@EleanorReallyShe does have a contract. Contracts don’t have to be written down. She’s worked, they have paid her. That is a contract in law. ACAS would say she’s a worker. She has some benefits and legal protections but not as much as a permanent employee. She does have a contract and the offer is a contract variation.

With regards to hours, present your request to show why it benefits the business to have you start earlier.They don’t care about your journey home so don’t lead with that.

You’ll need to demonstrate what the benefit to them is that you are in earlier. Eg covering calls that wouldn’t be answered. Or if it means you get a head start on anything that came in late the day before so it’s ready to go when everyone else gets in.

As someone who’s trust is offering voluntary severances for clinical and non clinical staff and have stated there is no bank allowed to be authorised unless by operational managers I would take the permanent post.
Trusts are trying to save money by reducing bank. A lot of our regular bank staff haven’t been able to get work.

the op has been paying into a pension as have her work, @daisychain01 , she has missed paid leave though

Accept it. Look for something else meanwhile. See what happens.

Exactly and therein lies the rub. If you've stayed with your employee as a temp for 10 years then this was an inevitability

Actually you've missed out on 10 years pension contributions by them so you have missed out on an important chunk of benefit already. If you still have plenty of working life left you will do well to consider building up a retirement fund that is partly funded by your employer

she has no contract
she is on the bank
they can let her go with no notice

Are you an agency worker or a temp on a fixed term contract? They are very different.

So wait, you’re a casual worker. Temp just being the term your business uses to classify you? This will all be changing anyway, sounds like new director is trying to get ahead of the game.

@MyLov The op is classed as a worker. She has no unfair dismissal rights. They can dismiss her by amending her contract to one she doesn’t like. They can then fill the job on their terms. She’s not an employee so has less rights. All contracts can be amended or ceased. Obviously agreement is best but the employer needs this change. Whether it’s the op that does the permanent job or someone else, it’s no great shakes but no doubt the op could be the better bet due to experience. However the job could be made redundant and changes made to a new one with a new contract. All contracts can be amended and if the op doesn’t like it, she might be let go with no compensation.

OP you are missing the posts that are telling you that:

• you are permanent anyway because you’ve worked there so long you have all the rights of a permanent employee - this means they can’t sack you or make you redundant (as the role’s not redundant) just because you won’t sign a new contact - this deadline of Monday is fictitious
• Tge change of hours is separate to you being “made permanent”. If you have no contract and you’ve done these hours for years then those hours have become contractual via “custom and practice”. Your employer can’t just change them unless you have a contract that says they can amend the tens and conditions, which it doesn’t sound like you have. I would get some further advice on this perhaps from ACAS, or you could see if you have free legal help via one of your insurances.

So the above is what I’d initially go back to them with. They are banking on you not knowing your rights and just signing the contract. So make sure you know your rights (by speaking to ACAS and/or getting legal advice?. Focus on that first.

If it turns out that there is a way they can vary your contact (ie your hours), then you can try to negotiate at that point and then failing that put in a flexible working request, which as said above, they would find it tricky to justify not granting it as you’ve worked those hours without issue for years. But focus on what they can and cannot legally do and have those in your back pocket as a back up.

If you do need to put in a flexible working request get some advice at that point as to what to include or not include.

Beet of luck.

You've decided to take the job for now, hope you find an alternative soon.

@redfishcatSo permanent staff cannot take leave at Christmas because the bank staff refuse to cover them at this time of year? No wonder the NHS is in the state it’s in. Christmas IS holidays! So I guess expensive agency staff are brought in are they?

As you are a temp (albeit long term) are they able to just terminate your contract (no reason given), as I’d be careful about that. I think the advice to take it permanently (if you have no choice) and see how it pans out is the best advice. Temp workers can't really afford to be awkward (unless protection has changed a lot). I last temped in the mid 2000s and after two and half years was given a couple of weeks notice as they didn't need me anymore and couldn’t justify the cost.

@user1471867483

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do, and them changing the hours to a start and finish time that are both 2 hours later is a reasonable reason to not stay. But I am confused about the 'coming home in the dark' bit... Will you be finishing at midnight now? Also, most people come home from work in the dark for about a third of the year!

Also, I fail to see how being somewhere TEN years is a 'temporary job!'

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Yes, this