Do you think there’s 2 tier policing in the uk?

@Welliesandtweed

Except it’s not.

Which is my point on people wanting their feelings and emotions to take the place of facts.

For example:

https://www.brunel.ac.uk/news-and-events/news/articles/New-sentencing-guidelines-will-make-the-UK's-justice-system-more-fair-not-less-–-expert-view#:~:text=Although%20there%20are%20variations%20across%20age%20groups,average%20custodial%20sentence%20length%20for%20equivalent%20offences.

Although there are variations across age groups and offence types, government statistics suggest that ethnic minority defendants are more likely than white defendants to receive an immediate custodial sentence, rather than a community sentence, for the same seriousness of offence. The statistics also suggest that ethnic minorities have a consistently higher average custodial sentence length for equivalent offences.

For example (for drug searches and use of force)

yjlc.uk/resources/legal-updates/racial-disparity-stop-and-search-new-report-calls-greater-scrutiny-self

The evidence shows that there is significant disproportionality in the use of stop and search powers on Black, Asian and Minority Ethnic ('BAME') people. In 2019/20, BAME people were stopped and searched at a rate 4.1 times higher than White people. Black people were 8.3 times more likely to be searched than White people, despite the fact that the rate of finding drugs on Black people was slightly lower than for White people.
In the records examined, Black people were 5.7 times more likely to experience force from police than White people, and 9 times more likely to have Tasers used on them. Given this evidence, is it the case that force is being used on Black people simply with less justification, or are there other explanations that can be offered? So far there have been no satisfactory evidenced-based reasons given for the disproportionality overserved. Whilst disproportionality doesn’t necessarily indicate misapplication of powers, it’s important that forces are able to explain any discrepancies and demonstrate that their use of power is lawful and fair.

For example

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/metropolitan-policeuk603fa18ec5b617a7e411ffc5

London’s Metropolitan Police is more likely to issue details of a criminal sentencing if it involves a Black person, our analysis has shown.

@Watermelonice
Yes because sentences are always different based on circumstances etc.g first crime, or repeated offences, done to a vulnerable person; children, multiple offences of assult, cricumstances, age etc. Like it's pretty clear that judges work off guidelines and also we have a very independent and retrial judiciary - they're selected based on their ability as lawyers and experience by an independent body. Unlike other countries where they have to be partisan. Just because you see some images of a protest (could be faked or only showing some of what happened, with little to no context) means nothing in how the police decide to arrest and charge people.

Furthermore, the reports (Lammy Review in 2017 and Louise Casey's Review in 2023) found that police forces are racist and misogynistic. Offical stats are not social facts the way the are taken and grouped can change they're meaning- for example if you stop and search one group 3.7x more than the other (in the case for black people v white people - 2023) then yes you find more criminal offences. All the evidence shows that there's adultifcaiton of BAME groups and often illegal searches of them. In the Lammy Review they found that Black people were more than 3x more likely to be arrested and 5x more likely to receive over-use of police force. This is despite the difference in population with Black people only being around 4% of the population. So if there's any two-tier policing it's policing which disproportionately impacts marginalised groups. Look at the prison population - most people went to care (25% in 2013 review but are only 1% of general population), suffer from addiction issues, are working-class and homeless.

For what?

Yes I do.
Kate and Jerry McCann for example. If they had been working class they would be in prison now.

I watched the video of his arrest. I don't think he should have been arrested, really, even thiugh tecwsd being provocative.

However, he lost my sympathy somewhat when he said police "prefer" Muslims to Chrstians.

Is that the two tier policing you mean?

Eta: you make it sound like he was grabbed by 11 police. He wasn't. There were a few policemen in the vicinity as well as the two or three actually arresting him.

That wasn't the question.

‘Certain’ groups. ‘Certain’ crimes. That’s what I mean. I’ve been explicit, as have others, about what groups we believe are discriminated against, with links in some cases.

What do you mean?

there absolutely is and is proven all the time when policing demonstrations. it’s also proven without doubt with the length of some sentencing

Well yes, but not in the way claimed. There's been a huge disparity in sentencing of ethnic minority people and white people for many years. Similarly with things like stop and search, and arrest rates.

Is this about grooming gangs? Those girls were failed by the police and every other adult in their lives.

But do you honestly think things would have gone that much differently for them if the offenders had been mostly white? The police don’t care about girls like them. Society doesn’t care about girls like them.

Even a “nice“ girl with money, education and a supportive family is lucky if her rape case makes it to court. Never mind getting a conviction. These girls never stood a chance.

I do agree the state of the police and the wider justice system in this country is appalling though.

If I’ve misunderstood what you’re talking about, please feel free to clarify.

Right… so the “2 tier” policing you were implying in your posts is due to an unfairness within the police/justice system.
But the “2 tiers” shown by a PP’s stats is due to the behaviour of the individuals.

When people think white people are being discriminated against, that’s an unfair system. When the stats show that black people are discriminated against, that’s because black people are more violent when arrested and more likely to commit crime?

There are subtle issues with race and policing. One study showed that police officers (I think it was US research) estimated the age of Black children higher than white children of the same age. Seems innocuous. But imagine a child holding a toy gun. A ten year old doing that is a child playing with a toy. A 13 year old could be perceived as a teenager with a real gun. Very very different outcomes. Black children are seen as older, more threatening, more dangerous, more reportable, less empathetic to police officers. And therefore more force is used. Black teenage girls are more likely to be strip searched.

And the antidote to that is increasing trust, increasing multi-disciplinary teams, decreasing racism and misogyny in the police. Not blaming the Black teenagers for not trusting and complying with the police.

I don't think there's two tier policing (unless you're a black man) so much as there is lazy policing. And people need to stop comparing entirely different crimes as their evidence - like for like perpetrated by different demographics otherwise it's nonsense.

There is racist policing. Is that what you mean?