… To be considering leaving the UK?

The world is changing everywhere and what you want may not actually exist.

Most people want more than that for their children, I do.

We’re not finding it terrible and neither are everybody around us. Most are grateful 14 years of Tories are over and accept that sorting out the shit they left and new pressures will take time. Most know are also grateful for the NHS, not having a dictator dismantle their country, safety and no extreme weather patterns. With global warming, aging populations and several wars on the go the entire world is having to accept that life is changing. Simpler things are what we all need to learn to be grateful for .

You say you prefer to pay tax but then you'll do salary sacrifice for benefits and pension and one day you'll calculate that you can drop to 4 days a week and it won't make much difference to your take home. And one day you might retire early becaise, again, after tax it's nit really worth it.

Everyone says they're happy to pay tax but (perhaps subconsciously) they/we vote with our feet in reality. If you tax cigarettes we smoke less, and if you tax work we work less.

I just need a job somewhere else, that determines where I go. I'm an EU national and am applying. It's much easier said than done though, as I have UK qualifications. Been here 25 years. I'll try anyway.

I've lived in Switzerland. It's expensive but it's clean, safe and beautiful. However, I personally found it staid and boring and was happy to leave... We recently had the chance to re-locate back there (with big salary + package) but we declined as we couldn't imagine it a good fit for our children based on our experience. Bear in mind, depending on where you will live and if you're exploring local schools (not private), kids may need to speak local 'swiss' dialect (specific to that region and not spoken elsewhere as high german might not be used).

I have 3 sets of friends living in UAE - again not somewhere I'd personally see as a 'long term' base. I have not lived there but based on what i see of their experience, would not consider it for many reasons (aside of the moral ones due to exploration, women's rights etc). One child is finishing school age 16 and there's concern about what they will do next - parents work visa does not support child staying in the country once school education finishes (child isn't sure they want to continue education - no option for apprenticeship, college etc).

Portugal - we currently live in a similar med country and over the years, so many people have come and gone because they seriously underestimate the cost of living. Do research. To give you an idea, the people we know with children roughly sit within the 4-5k per month cost of living, for a basic lifestyle. Spain, Portugal etc are not as cheap as chips! (as always assumed)

Jersey - good friend grew up there, disliked the fact everyone knew everyone's business. Small place that may get claustrophobic.

Of your options, I would steer toward Portugal. Children will pick up second language which lends itself to also easily picking up spanish, italian and french (in terms of similar grammar), plus more relaxed pace of life. Greener areas in cooler months and lots of walks to be had, healthier food and near to UK if you did indeed want to re-locate back for any reason. Given that your children may feel the uk is their 'roots' and be drawn back when old enough, it might be nicer to be closer in terms of flights/visiting if you want to maintain a relationship.

Our backup plan is NZ if we leave where we are currently living. Having lived in SE Asia and carribean too, we would only consider places we could see a 'long term' future for our children without having to move again. Of course, it's likely children will grow up and take off anyway, so all good intentions will be shot to pieces, regardless!

ETA: Australia - we had the option to move back 6 years ago through visa programme (had enough points) but could not make the finances work. Look into cost of living as it's gone up significantly.

Switzerland would tick all your boxes OP. It is amazing.

The U.K. is in a terrible place right now (crime, net immigration, tax burden, education tax, cost of living crisis, health care, unemployment) and all looking to get worse. It’s worth trying to get out to give your children a better future if you have the means and think Labour are likely to continue in Government for their full term.

Nigel we know it's you!

Why so rude and patronising?

No it's not. Your definition of word salad seems to be something you disagree with. I am careful with words, and weigh them. The EU court has at least twice found in favour of the right of establishment and to bring in free movement labour being paid under locally negotiated rates, against trades unions. That is upfront using free movement to keep wages down and putting employers' rights above workers' rights.

And taxes are actually higher in many European countries - it makes me laugh when people say they want to move abroad to avoid high taxes. If you want to go to Dubai etc well....I prefer to pay tax myself, support the country I live in and receive decent services. I swear since Thatcher the UK is just every man for himself. Complain about what's on offer but not happy to pay to improve things.

Indeed - the withdrawal agreement protected those of us who were already abroad but home uni fees otherwise are only available now if you've been living in UK for 3 years and you might not be eligible for any student finance. My dd has decided to stay in Europe for a Masters due to cost / loan. The unis make their money from foreign students - fees can be eyewatering.

Word salad….

Do you need to work for a living?

Do you have EU passports?

If you don’t have EU passports, do remember that you need to have a job offer and contract in your destination country to get a visa. You can’t just rock up and stay long-term - unless you have significant funds to get an investor or similar ‘wealthy immigrant’ visa, eg Portugal does digital nomad.

Also remember that as an immigrant you don’t have the same rights especially regarding healthcare access for the kids etc.

If you don’t have British passports, check your leave conditions - you may not be able to come back and have the same immigration status, depending on how long you stay for. ‘Indefinite leave to remain’ actually has conditions attached.

All I’d say is if you’re moving with kids and need a house from day 1 etc, you need to have significant savings to get access to property etc. As a single person it’s a lot easier.

If you’re independently wealthy and only moving for lifestyle/ weather you can ignore most of the above.

In summary:

• make sure you know which visa types you qualify for
• make sure you know the full up front cost of first few months, including relocation, visas for kids, any deposits/ up front fees etc
• enjoy!

I say this as someone who has lived in 5 countries.

A degree really isn’t a shoe in to Canada and Canada is cracking down on immigration with reductions on annual permanent residency numbers. They also have an unemployment issue with almost double our rates.

There is nothing wrong with testing. In fact, explicit interactive teaching which includes repetition, rehearsal and retrieval i.e. for tests is the best way to learn. It's the 'I do, we do, you do' model.

I never understand why people think the EU is this wonderful thing. It's a capitalist cartel devoted to making sure labour is as cheap as possible (hence free movement) and an imperial power in imposing it's views on liberalising economies (i.e. privatising everything including the kitchen sink) on trading partners esp in Africa. It's also deeply undemocratic and is intended so to be - ordinary people are kept as far away from any levers of powers as possible.
What's the craic?

And yet Canada has the highest rate of university educated people in the western world. We just don’t test kids to death and don’t overload them when they are young. Cultural differences are real and some kids love it, adjust, get on with things and fit right in. Others don’t. That’s a personal experience based on individual people. A lot can depend on how the kids like it.

Well a single youngish person with a degree doing a job that requires a degree is a shoe in for Canada:

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/services/immigrate-canada/express-entry/check-score.html

...and that's not even a technical degree.

Agreed - we were fortunate to get PR but it was a long drawn out process (made worse by covid ) 4 years In total all the time in limbo on work permits not knowing if we could stay. Required immigration lawyers and thousands of pounds in cost too probably close to 8k ish with legal fees and all the permit costs prior to pr, medicals , biometrics , police reports and the actual application cost ! That’s on top of the cost or relocating all on stuff to which was around 5k - it’s a hugely expensive and time consuming process - we got there in the end but was lucky

I think I answered this above to pp but yes love it here.

Of course there are hoops, I don’t think anyone is planning on turning up in a dinghy.

French - I started learning in lockdown on Duolingo and switched to an evening class once things opened up. I’d say I’m intermediate level now. I was recently talking to a French lady comparing our old French properties and she said in French ‘well I’m going to keep talking to you in French because your French is good enough’ I was really chuffed. Dh has stuck with duolingo but doing ok. He is already fluent in 3 other European languages though, annoyingly!

Neither of us need fluent French for our jobs, I will start a small business here (total career change) and he will keep working in his engineering role in a third country. Only we will now pay French tax which is slightly more but not much really. rather than uk tax.

And yet Canada has the highest rate of university educated people in the western world. We just don’t test kids to death and don’t overload them when they are young.