I hate anti-vaxxers

@AnxiousOCDMum I see you didn't read the link I provided you. 🙄 Here's some screenshots.

Partially due to people not vaccinating as well as the vaccine protection not being 100% and the fact that viruses mutate and new strains emerge that won’t be covered by the vaccine.

For me it’s a matter that the actual vaccine concerns me as much as the virus given our own experience. For other people it may be different.

I’d still like one of the non-vaccinating posters to explain why the incidence of measles is increasing, and why this doesn’t concern them.

It does although the benefits are a bit more questionable in adolescent boys and young men. Otherwise the benefits of Covid vaccination outweigh the risks in all age groups.

The reason the JCVI gave for not recommending it was it wasn’t cost effective to administer on a population level. I suspect that’s a decision that will get looked at in an inquiry at some point in the future.

School, not cafes, restaurants, shops. Your child can be in the park and the child next to them may have just eaten a bag of peanuts. This is a risk to the child with the nut allergy. To keep these children safe, those with a proven fatal nut allergy, all nuts should be destroyed and banned worldwide to protect them.

^ this is the same logic the majority of this entire thread wants to apply. Except vaccines also carry a (small) risk of dangerous side effects, whereas not eating nuts will only minimise ones pleasure. You can’t have it both ways.

True but they’re also vaccinated as per peoples wish for herd immunity. By this logic, all peanuts should be destroyed.

Not true. As I posted earlier, my fully-immunised dc caught mumps in a preventable mini-epidemic. I also know a teenager who had measles as a healthy 6yp, and became T1 diabetic 6 weeks later. He, too, was fully immunised.

https://www.nhs.uk/vaccinations/mmr-vaccine/#:~:text=How%20well%20the%20MMR%20vaccine,will%20be%20protected%20against%20mumps

How well the MMR vaccine works
Protection starts within 2 weeks of having the MMR vaccine.

After 2 doses:

around 99% of people will be protected against measles and rubella
around 88% of people will be protected against mumps
If you get mumps after being vaccinated, the symptoms will usually be much milder.

immunisations are not 100% effective and your child was unfortunate to catch mumps but it could have been a lot worse if you had not immunised your child.

Not all children can be immunised because of allergic reactions or some parents choose not to for whatever reason or can't immunise because of lack of vaccines in 3rd world countries.

"Hate" is perhaps a bit strong. But, nevertheless, I do think it important to point out to those ignorant selfish people who avoid recommended vaccines for themselves and/or their children that, yes, while they have - and should have - the right to do so, they are nevertheless doing wrong in that their actions and omissions are likely to hurt others (amongst whom, not least, their own children).

Anti-vaxxers, that is, are immoral, bad people. Ignorance is no excuse for such selfishness. Nor is the plain stupidity they often manifest in vapid attempts at self-justification (such as in some of this thread for example).

We have to live with bad people amongst us, sadly. Murderers, rapists, thieves, racists, misogynists ... and anti-vaxxers. OK, some are worse than others. They're all immoral though.

This needs saying, even if "hate" overdoes matters.

@Aparecium

"Covid vaccines are an entirely different matter to measles vaccines, to all the vaccines against illnesses that were once childhood killers - and still are, in under-vaccinated countries such as Somaliaa*. "

I completely agree and also think that the COVID vaccine roll out to people that tbh didn't really need it, is what is now causing a push back against essential vaccinations for example measles.

As you point out the COVID vaccines are entirely different to measles vaccines. Measles can and still does kill significant numbers of children whereas Covid killed relatively few children in comparison to say the over 80s.

It doesn't matter if everyone vaccinated their children there's a good chance your child can still get sick. COVID vaccine proved that people were still getting sick even after having the vaccine. The vaccine helps to minimise the illness but no vaccine can prevent your child from ever catching mumps or measles.

Covid vaccines are an entirely different matter to measles vaccines, to all the vaccines against illnesses that were once childhood killers - and still are, in under-vaccinated countries such as Somaliaa*.

Breakthrough infections’ – where people get infected despite having been fully vaccinated – can occur.

No shit, Sherlock. So shall we just not bother with the intrusiveness of DBS checks and the inconvenience of safeguarding protocols, because vulnerable people still get harmed anyway? Does harm reduction not matter?

I thought with the covid vaccine, it benefitted children in their own right. There was also a wider benefit to other children and adults as it reduced transmission. There is some evidence that it reduces the risk of long covid too.

@cakeorwine

"How do you keep your child safe from measles?

How does someone who is pregnant keep themselves safe from someone with rubella?"

I think you are missing the point - @AnxiousOCDMum point is on the rationale of vaccination of one's self for little benefit to yourself but providing a benefit for others.

Whereas getting your child vaccinated against measles provides a massive benefit to the child as well as a secondary benefit to others.

Getting your child vaccinated against rubella provides a massive benefit to the unborn child but little benefit to others.

Conversely the covid vaccination of children provided a low benefit to the child (they were in a very low risk category) but was argued for in order to stop the spread of COVID to wider society. However given that the COVID vaccine didn't prevent transmission (but just reduced the severity of the illness) then the COVID vaccination of children with no serious health issues was stopped.

The point is that if you believe that people should be vaccinated for the benefit of others rather than the benefit to individuals then yes it would be logical to ban all nuts. Indeed this already happens on flights or school cakes for example, where nuts are banned.

Lots of schools do ban nuts.

those who believe everyone should vaccinate themselves to protect those vulnerable absolutely should advocate for all peanuts to be banned

My son is allergic to peanuts, but his allergies are not triggered by other people eating peanuts. They are not contagious like measles. He can protect himself by checking labels and not eating peanuts - people with infectious diseases are not labelled, so others could avoid them.

How do you keep your child safe from measles?

How does someone who is pregnant keep themselves safe from someone with rubella?

A lot of healthy people died during COVID. I've seen footballers drop in the middle of the pitch having a heart attack, healthy people as well. You can't be so sure she didn't have any underlying issues because at the time they weren't going to investigate what it was. It was all COVID.

It doesn't matter if everyone vaccinated their children there's a good chance your child can still get sick. COVID vaccine proved that people were still getting sick even after having the vaccine. The vaccine helps to minimise the illness but no vaccine can prevent your child from ever catching mumps or measles.

My son caught COVID before he was allowed to be vaccinated I layed beside him even kissed his forehead. I didn't catch it and I was vaccinated. Not everyone's immunity is strong even after vaccination. That's not the fault of people who decide not to vaccinate themselves or their children.

https://www.who.int/news-room/feature-stories/detail/vaccine-efficacy-effectiveness-and-protection#:~:text=Vaccines%20can%20stop%20most%20people,that%20they%20can%20get%20infected.

Vaccine protection and infection

Vaccines can stop most people from getting sick, but not everyone. Even after someone receives all of the recommended doses and waits a few weeks for immunity to build up, there is still a chance that they can get infected. Vaccines do not provide full (100%) protection because of many factors, including our individual differences in immunity and response to infection.

Breakthrough infections’ – where people get infected despite having been fully vaccinated – can occur.

Obviously you didn’t read thread before posting. Very few people have issues with the Covid jab. (I seriously doubt your exes’ mum died after receiving it, BTW. You might have thrown in a few extra ‘exes’ mum’s cousin’s neighbour’s hairdresser’ for effect.)

I am not the one denying my children pain relief and medical care.

You are vile.

You can believe I’m lying if it makes you feel better. As I said to you before, I know the truth and I’m comfortable with our choices based on this.

so many people having issues with the Covid jab but you hate us who didn’t get it? I’m glad I didn’t and my exes mum actually died after getting it, no prior health issues

I love watching you tie yourself in knots. It’s really quite something. If you don’t want to be called out on lies and bullshit about medicine, maybe stick to American mom groups on facebook - they’d be more your tin hat wearing vibe.

Yep, my child with a peanut allergy has never needed calpol and he’s had antibiotics once.

I KNEW you’d be here before I even came back to the thread 😂

He’s not the one who’s vaccine injured though fyi.

And thank GOD we’ve never had to use his epi pen, but of course if we had to in a life threatening allergic reaction I would give him adrenaline via the auto injector to save his life. I do not think measles / mumps / rubella etc etc pose the same risk. You’d be an absolute idiot to suggest they do.

I am not petitioning or expecting every single person stop eating nuts because he’s vulnerable though. That’s the difference.