I hate anti-vaxxers

I said measles is a detox for the body which clearly it is if it wipes the immune system memory.

and in all honesty, we wouldn’t be here today if it was as deadly as they make out it is now.

Maybe I’m an anxious ocd mum because I’m vaccine damaged myself. Who knows. Not a doc. Just a mum who was pro vax as I said, until we weren’t due to the reason I stated. Further research of my own has confirmed this is the right decision for us, for now.

It does become a concern when people are giving misinformation about immunity or vaccines though or when your choices affect others.

You've got to feel sorry for the intellectually challenged.

Far from priming the immune system, measles wipes the immune memory for everything. Children who get measles are more likely to die of any disease than a child who hasn’t in the two years after infection. And that’s before the chances of developing SSPE 10 years down the road and dying from your previous measles infection then.

I'd been assuming that, but I've known a few HCPs with assorted MH conditions, so we'll see.

Plumbing and sanitation helped with the spread (just as measures like cleaner indoor air or better ventilation would help reduce the spread of airborne viruses and like today, costs, pushback, bau, beliefs, fatalism, short-termism, playing down impacts of diseases/rites of passage etc win, just as they did over sanitation previously). Vaccines played a major part in controlling cholera and sanitation alone without vaccination would have been insufficient in nearly eradicating polio.

Immune amnesia as a detox plan sounds a bit shite!

It’s not the only vaccine that reduces severity of disease rather than completely preventing transmission.

Nope. You can still buy them privately. It’s the criteria to be eligible for a free one in the autumn vaccination scheme.

They’ve changed the criteria to be the same as for the spring covid vaccinations so if you were only eligible for one per year then you probably aren’t eligible for one at all now.

It would be much better if the UKHSA at least said they recommended it for all adults but they weren’t going to provide it because it was cost effective on a population level so people would have to buy it themselves but I guess that would raise some awkward questions they’d have to explain away.

FWIW for whoever mentioned it upthread the initial Pfizer trials did show the vaccine prevented transmission of wild type SARSCOV2 nobody was lying. It was true at the time. But by the time it was manufactured widely the barely controlled spread in the U.K. had managed to develop alpha and delta which it was slightly less effective against. A well matched vaccine still shows reasonably good efficacy for preventing an infection for up to 6 months after the vaccine. As well as preventing a severe infection and reducing the chance of long covid and other long term Covid sequelae.

Just look at her username and you’ll work out that her antivax stance is probably strongly linked to her self declared MH conditions.

What are your scientific and/or medical qualifications?

I love it when people say they’ve “researched”. You’ve watched YouTube and Facebook. That is not research. The rate of vaccine injury is 0.0053%. I highly doubt your child actually is vaccine injured. Convenient for your antivax narrative though... You also don’t seem to understand the first thing about herd immunity. If everyone who can vaccinate does, it halts the spread of disease and people who cannot vaccinate are protected by association because there’s nobody to spread it to them. If a disease rampages through a population that’s not creating herd immunity, it’s natural selection - people who are vulnerable will die. Look at the plague - that went away without a vaccine…. But it killed over a third of Europe. Or Spanish flu - that went away without a vaccine. 50 million people died though. Herd immunity is the many protecting the few, not the many dying and leaving the few.

YANBU. There was a notice on my LO’s door at nursery saying there was a suspected case of measles in the baby room, which is ages 6 months to 24 months, so naturally anyone under 1 won’t have been vaccinated yet. The whole point of us all being vaccinated is it not only protects ourselves but also other kids who genuinely can’t be vaccinated. It’s infuriating.

Ok, carry on with your research. The rest of us will vaccinate so your kids don't get polio or other such rite of passage diseases.

I don’t vaccinate as my son is vaccine injured as I stated earlier on. This is confirmed by doctors not a figment of my imagination. This led to me researching in great detail and deciding to cease all further vaccines for all of my family. This was an informed decision. I was very pro-vax previously.

FFS.

When this thread started, a number of people complained that immigrants did't vaccinate. I very much doubt that the anti-vaxers on this thread are immigrants. Stupidity is common in all communities.

Plumbing and sanitation helped with cholera and polio. Measles and mumps were never considered crazily deadly diseases before. Rather a rite of passage for children and yes, measles is a complete detox of the body and other childhood illnesses (chicken pox for example) prime the immune system and have protective factors against other diseases.

That’s what happened with the Spanish flu

more people died of Spanish flu than in 1st WW,

dead people can spread the disease to living people but not dead

Oh come off it. Plumbing etc certainly helped with cholera but measles, mumps etc were ubiquitous in the western world with good sanitation in the 60s. They’ve been quashed by vaccination, but rear their ugly heads again when people get complacent and have luxury beliefs like antivax.

and re the ‘laws of nature’ - viruses are natures way of propagating viruses, nothing more. They don’t have a ‘purpose’ . They don’t exist to ‘prime our immune system’ - our immune systems evolved to combat them and other intruders. You’ve got causality the wrong way round. Vaccines otoh do exist to prime our immune systems - because human intelligence has enabled us to design them to do so.

But they don't. Autism is genetic.

Anti-vaxxers just make me sick tbh. The ones who have shown themselves up on this thread mostly confirm what I think of them. I have a vulnerable disabled DS and I would rather not have any of them anywhere near him, or me. If I found out a friend of mine was an anti-vaxxer I would find it hard to continue the friendship, would not see them as very different from a drunk driver.

My DS was born shortly after the MMR controversy....he was premature and brain damaged. We did have concerns about the vaccine and discussed whether to give them separately rather than together ie measles/mumps/rubella as separate jabs on separate occasions, just to avoid the perceived risk.

What we never dreamed of doing was denying him the vaccine altogether....it was always a question of how (rather than whether) to administer the MMR. So I do understand being fearful but parents really need to get their children vaccinated as overall this overwhelmingly minimises the risks both to them and other people's children.

Just to be clear I am not talking about the parents of those children who would be placed at risk by vaccines due to being exceptionally vulnerable. It is up to the rest of us to keep those children safe by vaccinating our own DC. In our case we had medical clearance to vaccinate DS so we respected and went ahead with the advice we received. Trusting and respecting expert medical advice is the best option we have.

I think the worry with doing through vaccination, besides the side effects, is that you run a very real risk of eventually stronger mutated strains. I do also believe when we try to “cheat” nature, we pay for it somewhere else hence the rise in auto immune conditions and cancers. A lot of the childhood illnesses do offer some protection against cancers.

While the vaccines may offer some protection we can’t disregard things like plumbing and sanitation playing a vital role in the reduction of preventable deaths.

Truthfully, I don’t believe true herd immunity exists. If it doesn’t work in nature, it won’t work artificially either. Not long term anyway.

It seems you understand that viruses mutate and no matter how clever science is, nature will find a way around it. Which is why we have these epidemics sometimes. Which is why we have antibiotic resistance. Etc.

In the end, I think there will always be viruses in circulation - the focus should be on supporting the body to deal with them. For most, they are natures way of priming and detoxing the immune system. Sadly, some will always have complications. I don’t think the answer is to try and stop these viruses artificially, but to understand them and support the body through them, because if you really understand the laws of nature, you will know you can’t.

But if it doesn't stop transmission surely it's not the same.

My DH has low platelets and white blood cell count and I would have the vaccine if it would stop me passing it to him as it's impossible for us to isolate from each other. As it won't (and I'd have to pay privately) we've decided I'm not going to at the moment.

I presume I had all the childhood vaccines other than whooping cough (there was a scare around it at the time) - I can remember being given a sugar lump after the polio one!