I hate anti-vaxxers

If you allow your unvaxxed kids near my children then they are my concern

Usually lazy, stupid or both. Where I live it's mostly lazy, if someone came to their house and gave it, they wouldn't have an issue with it.

It’s reckless not having your child vaccinated. These diseases are serious and can affect children for life or worse, others rely on herd immunity because they immunocompromised. A measles outbreak locally meant my friend’s son whose on chemo had to miss 5 months of school on doctor’s advice.

Yes, all fine thankfully.

I do know. Doesn't make them less of an idiot
If you don't know that irl that's due to the company you keep

Are the babies who developed measles in their teens yet @AnxiousOCDMum?

How is wiping out all the antibodies you body has made to every infection you have ever caught a ‘detox’? That’s how kids die from minor infections that are not measles after they have had measles.

Or maybe you’d rather your kid got polio or whooping cough or diphtheria twice because the first time was before measles and after having measles their body forgot they’d had it before and didn’t recognise it. I mean if it didn’t kill you the first time, might as well have a second go and hope you get lucky again the second time round.

And how would you feel if, with the best of intentions, your child was immunised and suffered catastrophic vaccine damage and you had to fight for years for compensation. This happened to someone I know. Their healthy toddler developed encephalitis immediately following the MMR and was left severely mentally and physically disabled.

By the way I am not an anti vaxxer but everything in the info given to parents suggests all vaccines are absolutely safe and this is simply not true. It should be acknowledged that a tiny percentage of children will have terrible and life changing reactions to vaccines and when that happens being properly compensated should be a straightforward and quick process rather than the vaccine manufacturer being allowed to delay taking responsibility for years and years.

If vaccinating children were to become mandatory this would mean that tiny percentage of children would have been forcibly harmed by the state.

@Futurehappiness im sure I could find sources and medical studies but I’m not trying to convince anyone to not vaccinate. I completely understand why people vaccinate, after all, I did use to. I equally understand those that choose not to, as I now have my reasons not to.

Also you are free to interpret the extract as you wish. I interpret it differently and I’m also basing this on the fact that my own mother, father, grandparents, great grandparents, aunties, uncles etc etc etc caught most, if not all, of these childhood diseases without any complications. I also know of 2 babies who caught measles while I was pregnant and are thankfully fine. I was told of 2 cases involving rubella in pregnancy with not great outcomes sadly, but I can also see how rubella is a mild illness in itself and it would be better to allow everyone to catch it and develop naturally immunity.

I do appreciate that there are always complications and they are always incredibly sad. I’m not trying to minimise these cases.

Ultimately my belief is we are all trying our best. No mother wants harm to come to their child or other children.

The fact is that other people will not always do what you want. Coercing people into invasive medical procedures they don't want has a lot of problems attached to it.

Some things you have to let go of, OP. There is no acceptable way to remove all risk or even most. That's life, hating people over things will just make your life shorter.

I think people have also been really worked up by the media about measles. It's not great that there are these outbreaks, and there are occasionally serious consequences.

But it seems like some people now are actually more scared of the disease than they were before the vaccine became available, when it was common for all kids to get it. Serious bad outcomes from measles became rare before vaccination was available, due to other medical advances, that are still with us. It's simply not the same scenario as it was in the early 20th century or before that.

In any case, I thought we were seeing people become more receptive to vaccination after the Wakefield business, and then covid came along and people fucked that up by doing precisely what medical organisations involved in campaigned with resistant populations say not to do - trying to force it on people. It backfired and here we are.

A detox doesn't usually mean something that makes you more vulnerable to catching and sometimes dying from other diseases!

'We wouldn't be here today if it was as deadly...' Honestly, you could say the same about bubonic plague or any disease that didn't literally kill 100% of the population! We're here because many of our ancestors had a child every year or two, which meant that, even with appalling childhood mortality, a few would live to grow up.

That doesn’t make sense.

I have absolutely no medical knowledge - but surely a detox means getting rid of toxins (ie bad things) in your body - whilst our immune system is what we need to fight infection. I think you are using the wrong words here.

@RafaistheKingofClay
Ah OK, so the age criteria has changed yet again. I wasn’t eligible anyway but paid for one last year and I’ll do that again if I can.

Bloody hell, is that really your idea of a ‘detox’?
you’ve clearly no understanding of how the immune system works if you think wiping its memory is a ‘detox’.

‘

Me too, it’s a privilege to have vaccines readily available, especially in light of the fact that in some third world countries children die all the time purely due to lack of availability.
The ignorance and conspiracy theories really frighten me. I do think Covid meant that rumours spread among some communities and this attitude seems to have stuck. I will always blame the government at the time for the worst possible handling of the pandemic which has hugely impacted on this.

Have you got a source for your claims about the benefits of these diseases?

And I don't interpret the article you quoted about then-Prince Charles's measles the way you seem to imply we should. I don't believe anyone at the time could have been complacent about a disease which can lead to devastating complications and which caused an estimated 2.6 million deaths each year (according to the World Health Organisation) before vaccination began in 1963.

As Charles was 12 at the time and born in '48 he had the measles around 1960, before vaccination. It is easy to believe that people would have been fairly fatalistic about it at the time, when there was no defence against a highly contagious disease. And where the article states that 'it is expected that the illness will run its usual course' I interpret that as meaning that it had passed the dangerous stage where the dreaded complications might have occurred - otherwise why even mention this?

So I don't read this as complacency about the disease, but stoicism. This happened just 15 years after the end of WW2 after all so probably a 'stiff upper lip' was usual.

Would you not be more anxious if your children caught measles and died/became disabled when it could have been prevented by a vaccine that has an excellent safety record? I’d bet my life you’d be very regretful.

Also what about the deaths that are caused by vaccine derived strains? Do we jail the nurse? The drug company? The recipient?

Technically the babies should have inherited temporary immunity from their mums until around 9 months of age. Especially if breastfed.

There’s nothing to say that. Apart from severe anxiety which I’m not actually saying is vaccine related, I’m pretty healthy and fully vaccinated as a child. My mother had all said childhood diseases, no vaccines and is arguably healthier than me. My children are partially vaccinated - 1 vaccine injured. So that’s it for us. A mixed bag.

Yanbu its so frustrating how gullible people are and how some people will believe anything they see on social media. You could literally post my kid had their vaccine and grew a 2nd head and people would believe it.

Nope, I hate people who spread preventable diseases to babies too young to be vaccinated and the immunocompromised as much in real life as online.

I think that any parent who causes a death by refusing vaccines should face a murder charge.

What’s to say you wouldn’t have been more damaged by contracting the disease itself? Since most vaccines work because they contain live attenuated or dead pathogens, it’s not unheard of for some people to experience similar symptoms as those they would experience if they contracted the disease naturally, although less likely and more mildly if and when they do. To apply your logic to every single vaccine doesn’t make sense because each one is different.

50 million dying was 2.7% of the population - that doesn’t equate to the many dying and leaving the few.

And before you start, no of course I wouldn’t want 2.7% of the worlds population wiped out. Hopefully with better sanitation and control measures we wouldn’t see those numbers again.

I will admit I know very little about childhood vaccines as I don’t have kids and had my vaccines many years ago! I’ve never had a vaccine as an adult, other than a tetanus about 15-20 years ago, until the covid ones.