Lily Allen ‘can’t remember’ how many abortions she’s had

'The friend' has been a TV broadcaster for over 20 years.

Would you be Ok with being shamed for things you did decades ago?

I very much doubt it.

The internal misogyny is running strong on Mumsnet today.

Personally I'd call it an infuriating story rather than a sad one.

And in all your infinite wisdom you thought “perfect place for such a discussion is AIBU”

Sure OP, you were up for a measured balanced discussion

You're not unreasonable @blossoming56 . A public figure has spoken in the public media about this and we are discussing it.

Those who don't like it have the option of avoiding the thread.

I don't believe abortion is a moral issue, simple as that. And there are plenty of lifestyle choices that end up needing treatment. So it's not my concern any more than a smoker needing cancer treatment.

It's not 'ok, you can only have it if you're suitably sad and ashamed about it, take a good hard look at yourself and do better in future, otherwise you will be punished with a baby you didn't want.'

I'm probably referring to most posters on this thread. A thread about IVF embryos wouldn't cause this much excitement. It's not different though, if the issue truly is potential life. But I feel like the issue is about women-bashing.

Exactly. I have had an abortion once, very early, I was about 9 or 10 weeks I think. But I had to go into hospital as a day patient. You couldn't just pop a pill to induce it at home in those days. It was not a traumatic or difficult decision for me, and the abortion itself was not traumatic either. I was sedated and don't remember a thing about it.

The thought of having to have a baby I wasn't ready for with a man who wasn't right for me was far more traumatic than having an abortion. That said, it still messed me up hormonally for weeks afterwards and I was a bit of a mess for a while. Why anyone would prefer to repeatedly go through that than simply get some decent BC is a mystery to me.

Absolutely no way in hell was I ever going to let that happen again if I could possibly help it. I never played fast and loose with contraception again. I gave myself a break over that one time, although honestly, it was my fault. I was reckless. But I knew having access to abortion services was a privilege many women were denied and I shouldn't abuse it or take it for granted.

When I was in the waiting room with all the other women in the clinic that day, one very loud woman laughing about how it was her third abortion that year. I remember feeling nothing but disgust and contempt for her. There could have been women there awaiting a termination that was emotionally painful and difficult for them to have, letting go of babies they would have loved to keep if circumstances had been different and life had been easier.

It's reminiscient of that episode of Bojack Horseman where the dolphin pop star pretended to have had an abortion and made a song about it.

I think it’s rather grim. Contraception exists for a reason. Accidents happen, but my God, if she’s forgotten the number of abortions then she’s taking a very slap dash approach to her life. Obviously wasn’t brought up to be responsible. What a waste of money and peoples time.

Would it be consequential if you had committed neonatal infanticide 100 times? If so, why? Out of interest.

Catholics to tend to have feelings about those things....

It's fascinating reading posts like this, and wondering to myself if the person who wrote it genuinely doesn't understand the post she's responding to - or just pretends not to. I suspect the former...

Eta: it would make for far more satisfying reading to see the issues raised fully apprehended and responded to substantively

No one seems to mind if women take the morning after pill multiple times (it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting)
No one seems to mind when someone uses IVF and discards viable embryos when their family is complete
Also, a lot of people have very little to say about actual babies dying in war torn countries

"Wouldn’t having those babies have cost the NHS more?"

Words fail me

Why isn’t a choice to be taken lightly? For some women it might be the absolute right choice with no angst or regrets- others might feel differently.

it is an inconsequential choice - what are the consequences for anyone else if I have 1 or 100 terminations

Limiting the number comes from a place of judgement and morality - ie women should feel shame, women should take blame , women should regret it, if they don’t well we’ll stop you having any more? Who does that help?

Yes, young and unsupported, controlled, coerced, riddled with anxiety, struggling with mental health or addictions, afraid, unwell... Lots of potential reasons for her to 'not remember'
I presume a kept diary of these events is preferable for the body police.
'off her head' is really a horrible way to talk about someone with addiction issues.

I saw it on Instagram as a trailer for their regular Podcast which was on the subject of contraception. Am I ‘allowed’ to have thoughts and opinions on it - because I didn’t read it in the Daily Mail? Admittedly when it hit the Daily Mail (as I knew it would and that I knew she would get absolutely crucified for) it had garnered 3k + comments - most of which were horrifically sexist and misogynistic.

This is Mumsnet - it is perfectly acceptable to have a discussion about it. Lily herself would accept nothing less.

Lily Allen has been in the business for a long time. I'm sure she was aware this would be talked about when she shared it with the media.

What’s a woman’s quota then?

It was started to incite a bitchfest though.

I do think shes lying but no a woman shouldn't be having 4/5 abortions its not a form of birth control

I've never had an abortion, but I was once advised to have one during a pregnancy they thought there was an issue with. I nearly had a mental breakdown over the decision, and luckily I didn't have to do it in the end.

I would imagine having an abortion is quite distressing. Why wouldn't you do everything in your power not to land yourself in that position again, never mind 5 times.

But the vast majority on here are not opposing any woman's right to choose. I don't oppose LA's right to choose to have as many abortions as she feels that she needs. I am not however going to defend it as a wise or ethical decision to have so many abortions so carelessly because most people would agree that it isn't. As I have asked before what are we debating in this thread? Her right to have an abortion or her right to have multiple abortions, joke about it and not be judged? Because IMO she has every right for the former but absolutely no right for the latter

But given as you’ve just described there are multiple genuine reasons to be concerned if a woman is doing this, it’s not lighthearted fodder for the press ‘hahah what am I like?!’-style. I don’t know why she shared it, I don’t know what’s gone wrong in her life that contraception has been too hard, but it’s obviously something.

So who would benefit from this limit? Would it be the women forced to have babies they don't want? The babies born to mothers who don't want them? The taxpayer who has to pay for these unwanted babies? The older siblings whose parents cant cope with another? Which human life is doing better thanks to this limit of yours?