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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not follow school uniform rules?

86 replies

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 02/07/2025 21:04

Daughter is 14. I'm beginning to wonder if she has autism. She is VERY picky about socks and shoes. She has worn the same specific school shoes and non-school shoes for the last 4+ years.

She changes school in September and they have different shoe requirements.

Her school shoes broke last week. They are not repairable even short term. We'd normally just replace them but I'm having to do overtime to pay for all her new uniform and kit. I dont want to spend £50 on shoes for 15 days. Plus I couldn't get them until Sunday anyway.

I am pro-uniform and have always followed the rules (even if they are stupid).

I sent in a note explaining that her shoes broke, we wont be replacing them as she is leaving in a few weeks and is wearing plain black, unbranded walking boots. Her boots are perfectly practical, and at this time of year are no scruffier than all the other school shoes!

Yesterday she got a break detention for a uniform violation. She told me it was because she forgot her pencil case. I got a call today to say she has had a second uniform violation and she will be getting an afterschool detention. Turns out, both were about her shoes. They dont care that she has 15 school days. She needs to wear school shoes.

I did not give them permission to keep her after school. My daughter would rather have detentions than deal with new shoes and the idea of wearing the school spares freaks her out. Thats why she lied aboit the pencil case (we've spoken about that).

Now I have to meet with the head of year to "discuss my concerns". Thats booked for Wednessday. My daughter can wear her boots until we have met. There will be less than 2 weeks at school by then.

Its ludicrous. I will phone on Tuesday to rearrange the meeting for later in the week because Im not wasting my time (and presumably the HOY has better things to do too). I'll just do that over and over if necessary until they either see sense or give up.

So AIBU?
Yes - you and your daughter are not special. Stop making the teachers jobs even harder.
No - the school are being ridiculous and need to use common sense at the end of the school year.

OP posts:
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Natsku · 03/07/2025 20:01

TeenToTwenties · 03/07/2025 18:13

DD's college is very prescriptive on footwear however. Engineering will need electricity safe soles as well as steel capped. They may well have 1 designated supplier.

True, they might have a designated supplier. Mine have electricity safe soles too, needed them for my course.

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 18:44

In defence of her current school, it is very large. As someone else said, it all comes apart if they start saying rules dont apply to all the students.

As far as their uniform goes, its not unreasonable. Its white polo shirts and smart trousers. Trousers are a bit difficult but that is my daughter rather than school. She hates the feel of their jumpers so wont wear them. When its cold she wears thermals instead.

The new school uniform is almost what she wears casually. The trousers are cargo/work trousers that feel very similar to ones she likes to wear. So assuming they aren't slim fitting, she'll be fine with that. She can choose between a hoody, jumper or jacket thing. She likes how all of them feel so it will be based on how they feel on. It is really lucky because they are all branded and have to be bought from a specific shop (hence the overtime!). I did find a tiny little statement that said they will arrange for items to be embroidered with the logo fir free so presumably that is for when "standard" uniform isnt suitable.

OP posts:
RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 18:34

I have a meeting with SEN there tomorrow so will talk to them.

No doubt we'll get a uniform list soon that will specify exactly what they need. I just thought steel toe caps were steel toe caps so its good I mentioned them!

Thanks

OP posts:
TeenToTwenties · 03/07/2025 18:13

Natsku · 03/07/2025 18:10

I wear steel toecap trainers for work that are really comfy. Much nicer than the ankle boot option I also tried on.

DD's college is very prescriptive on footwear however. Engineering will need electricity safe soles as well as steel capped. They may well have 1 designated supplier.

Natsku · 03/07/2025 18:10

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 17:06

That you for that. I've just had a look at the prospectus and they are all wearing welly type shoes but I will clarify that when we meet with them tomorrow. It would be good if she can have the different options. The ones I always think of are the boots that look a bit like the caterpillar boots that were fashionable when I was at school.

I wear steel toecap trainers for work that are really comfy. Much nicer than the ankle boot option I also tried on.

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 18:04

simsbustinoutmimi · 03/07/2025 17:22

The welly types are probably for a school trip

I meant slip on ankle boots. 🤣
I said welly because my wellies are like slip on ankle boots and its been a looooooong day.

OP posts:
simsbustinoutmimi · 03/07/2025 17:22

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 17:06

That you for that. I've just had a look at the prospectus and they are all wearing welly type shoes but I will clarify that when we meet with them tomorrow. It would be good if she can have the different options. The ones I always think of are the boots that look a bit like the caterpillar boots that were fashionable when I was at school.

The welly types are probably for a school trip

InfoSecInTheCity · 03/07/2025 17:12

I generally go along with uniform rules, but this is stupid and feels arbitrary so it would get my back up.

You’ve delayed till the meeting which buys time. In the meeting give them the choice between her attending school in the boots, or not attending for the last 2 weeks. I’d insist on everything in writing.

If they went down the ‘fine for unauthorised absence’ route I’d let it go to court and present the evidence because it will make it clear that the only reason she wasn’t at school was because the school were trying to force you to spend unnecessary money on unnecessary uniform for a short period of time.

MyCyanReader · 03/07/2025 17:11

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 17:06

That you for that. I've just had a look at the prospectus and they are all wearing welly type shoes but I will clarify that when we meet with them tomorrow. It would be good if she can have the different options. The ones I always think of are the boots that look a bit like the caterpillar boots that were fashionable when I was at school.

I still have my lace up Doc Martin steel toe cap boots from when I did an engineering course! Never got round to selling them!

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 17:06

TeenToTwenties · 03/07/2025 16:36

Completely off topic but just in case relevant:
You can get steel capped lace ups easily
But you can also get steel capped slip on ankle boots, steel capped Wellington boots, and steel capped trainers.
The utc possibly has very specific requirements, but it might help you to know of the options.
(DD does animal care)

That you for that. I've just had a look at the prospectus and they are all wearing welly type shoes but I will clarify that when we meet with them tomorrow. It would be good if she can have the different options. The ones I always think of are the boots that look a bit like the caterpillar boots that were fashionable when I was at school.

OP posts:
MyCyanReader · 03/07/2025 17:04

@RichardOsmanTheSecond I'm a teacher in a secondary school and I think they'd ridiculous! If she has a note (and id even take the p*ss with a photo of the broken shoe!!) them given its only 2 weeks she should just be allowed to wear the walking boots as they're black and plain.

I'd email the school and say you can't afford to buy a pair of shoes just for 2 weeks and then buy another pair for September, so could you please have details of funding available to purchase them, then you will donate the shoes to the school at the end of the school year.

The meeting will probably be to establish if the shoes are genuinely broken as lots of parents lie for their kids!

CurlyKoalie · 03/07/2025 16:50

You "gave your child a note to explain to her class teachers....."
This might be the reason for the face to face meeting with one of the management team.
Whatever your issues with the uniform policy, whatever your thoughts on SEN exceptions and provisions can you not see how undermining the rules like this also undermines the management person in charge of enforcing this policy? Parents issuing notes like this also potentially disrupts lessons and undermines the standards that the classroom teachers have been asked to enforce whether they agree with them or not. If other students see a "note from mum" out-trumps any rules laid down by the school this can lead to an avalanche of other students and their parents writing little notes over anything they don't agree with. Believe me I have seen this happen.

TeenToTwenties · 03/07/2025 16:36

Completely off topic but just in case relevant:
You can get steel capped lace ups easily
But you can also get steel capped slip on ankle boots, steel capped Wellington boots, and steel capped trainers.
The utc possibly has very specific requirements, but it might help you to know of the options.
(DD does animal care)

EmpressOfTheThread · 03/07/2025 16:27

itsgettingweird · 03/07/2025 15:37

That’s the common sense approach and I bet the children still manage to learn the same maths in those clothes as their shirt tie and blazed peers!

We do well and got a very good Ofsted recently! No rules about nails or hair or anything. Only jewellery rules because of PE.

itsgettingweird · 03/07/2025 15:37

EmpressOfTheThread · 03/07/2025 07:38

@Divebar2021 - where I work, the students wear a branded polo shirt and sweatshirt, optional fleece in the winter. Black trousers or skirt. The uniform isn't gendered, it's simple and it's practical. I don't mind it.

That’s the common sense approach and I bet the children still manage to learn the same maths in those clothes as their shirt tie and blazed peers!

TorturedParentsDepartment · 03/07/2025 14:04

I hate schools that are ridiculous about uniform (see the one local to us who insisted in blazers, tights and trousers in the recent heatwave) and I do like the school we picked for our kids where they relax things within limits - so they were allowed to ditch blazers but not replace them with hoodies or anything like that, and where they've consulted the kids and gone round the local shops to identify that black trainer type shoes are increasingly being sold as "school shoes" and allowed them into uniform with a photo guide of what is allowed and what is pushing it... likewise they limit the logo stuff to the school tie, blazer and PE top and tell us to get to the uniform sales for the rest of the stuff.

Even with PE shorts when the Nike Pro ones sunk in - they got the kids to develop clarification and suggestions about ones which were acceptable and available in local shops rather than just coming down ridiculously on it all.

They also have reasonable adjustments for kids with SEN including things like letting them wear PE kit all day on PE days if they struggle with organising belongings to get changed back into uniform etc (mind you everyone's in PE kit now cos the sports block is being rebuilt!)

It's the sort of school where a quick word with the staff would have got a "yeah they're as black shoes as we're going to insist on with two weeks left of term"

Sayithowiseeit · 03/07/2025 13:48

If school are aware of the differences your daughter has then tell them that you feel its a reasonable adjustment

Garbera · 03/07/2025 13:41

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 08:31

I spoke with someone about it on the phone after the second detention. This is after I had already sent an email and gave my daughter a note in case teachers asked in lessons. This has to be a face to face meeting apparently.

I dont know what else I can tell them. I wont have anything different say in a face to face meeting that I will have to take annual leave for. I cant imagine the HOY wants to spend her time talking about shoes 2 weeks before the student leaves.

The conversation will either be "yes your daughter can wear her boots" in which case why cant that just be said over the phone or "no your daughter has to wear school shoes" which isnt going to happen so will be a complete waste of everyone's time.

Its not like this is even a unique situation they will never have encountered before. Thats what is bothering me! What is the cut off date here they say that minor uniform violations dont matter, especially for students who wont need the stuff again next year?

Perhaps it is about making it more hassle for you to avoid buying the shoes than to buy them. You might find you go to enough lengths by jumping through their hoop, and they OK the boots. A bit like a game of chicken - demonstrate that you care enough about not replacing the shoes and they may back down.

You actually don't need a diagnosis to ask for reasonable adjustments. The school is obliged to offer these based on need, not diagnosis. But it may seem a stretch that having worn regulation shoes all year, she suddenly can't due to SEN. Common sense should come into play given the cost of shoes, the fact she is leaving, her willingness to take the DTs as an alternative and (if this is the case) her record of adherence to the rules. You might need to promise not to tell anyone if they do relax the rules for her.

I hope her new school is spectacular and she is happier next year.

Topseyt123 · 03/07/2025 09:07

Soontobe60 · 03/07/2025 07:32

No you haven’t. You’ve said that she lied to you about the pencil case, which indicates that she didnt want to upset you by telling you it was about the shoes.

Yes she has. She has explained that her DD would rather do the detentions than get the new shoes.

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 08:45

PalePinkPeony · 03/07/2025 08:06

Wrong. If a person has been diagnosed with autism (so not in the op’s case atm) then the school MUST make reasonable adjustments. This could include a change of school shoe.
im sorry you went through that as did your friends- not sure how long ago that was but things have changed now and autism is recognised.

Yeah, she is not diagnosed. In all honesty I dont know whether it is autism. Sometimes she ticks every box but then sometimes is inconsistent eg if I have to take her to a supermarket, it inevitably ends up with behaving badly and claiming she is overwhelmed. But then, she'll go to a gig with all the pushing and shoving and noise and lights etc and love the "atmosphere". My husband thinks I can be unfair with that. I dont know.

Tbf to her, socks and shoes have always been an issue with her even when she was tiny.

OP posts:
RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 08:39

Whatafustercluck · 03/07/2025 07:53

Even if a school has a uniform policy (vast majority do), they must make reasonable adjustments for SEN (whether diagnosed or suspected). The op isn't expecting them to relax the rules to accommodate completely inappropriate footwear, such as Nike Air Force. She's gone for a very reasonable and sensible compromise.

Op, I sympathise with the school shoes issue. My 8yo dd had a pair for most of the year that she was happy with and they gave up the ghost a week ago. I explained that I wasn't going to buy her expensive ones for the remainder of the year and we spent more than an hour in the shoe shop trying on every single pair. The new ones are now problematic due to seams in the wrong place rubbing her feet, the velcro straps looking messy (her words) and her being unable to make them feel 'equal'. They were fine in the shop, but that's very different to wearing them all day every day.

With respect though, I think you went into battle with the school, rather than communicated to them the problem before what happened. In your situation, I'd have explained the sensory issues and asked them if we could come to a compromise, not just assumed that my solution was ok with them. Yes, many uniform policies are unnecessarily draconian. But in my experience, most schools will support a parent/ child who is struggling - whatever the reason.

Edited

I feel your pain. I hope your daughter's shoes get comfortable quickly.

The thing is, my daughter didnt have shoes. I couldn't compromise. I don't have anything to compromise with. I told the school the issue and how we were addressing it in the best way we could. I drew their attention to the colour and lack of branding on her boots to try and show we recognised their uniform policy and were not just disregarding it so she could wear Air Force I. If we had options I would have discussed the best options with the school eg if she had 2 pairs of shoes that didnt quite match the uniform.

OP posts:
RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 08:31

Nopersbro · 03/07/2025 07:45

Now I have to meet with the head of year to "discuss my concerns". Thats booked for Wednessday. My daughter can wear her boots until we have met. There will be less than 2 weeks at school by then.

Its ludicrous. I will phone on Tuesday to rearrange the meeting for later in the week because Im not wasting my time (and presumably the HOY has better things to do too). I'll just do that over and over if necessary until they either see sense or give up.

YABU. This has become a bigger deal than it should be because the school either didn't get or ignored or misunderstood your note about the shoes (a call or visit would have been better) and your daughter lied to you about the situation. You have a solution (keep the Wednesday meeting and talk to the school in person and explain), so unless you and/or your daughter's other parent are completely unable to get to the meeting, just go.

I spoke with someone about it on the phone after the second detention. This is after I had already sent an email and gave my daughter a note in case teachers asked in lessons. This has to be a face to face meeting apparently.

I dont know what else I can tell them. I wont have anything different say in a face to face meeting that I will have to take annual leave for. I cant imagine the HOY wants to spend her time talking about shoes 2 weeks before the student leaves.

The conversation will either be "yes your daughter can wear her boots" in which case why cant that just be said over the phone or "no your daughter has to wear school shoes" which isnt going to happen so will be a complete waste of everyone's time.

Its not like this is even a unique situation they will never have encountered before. Thats what is bothering me! What is the cut off date here they say that minor uniform violations dont matter, especially for students who wont need the stuff again next year?

OP posts:
PalePinkPeony · 03/07/2025 08:06

simsbustinoutmimi · 03/07/2025 03:56

I have autism. I had to follow school uniform rules despite hating uniform for various sensory reasons. I hated unfamiliar school shoes. Several of the kids at my schools had autism, some were more affected by it than me.

if she can’t cope with the uniform and won’t wear other shoes she needs to be in a non uniform school, SEN school or be homeschooled.

if your daughter refuses to wear school shoes she cannot attend a school with a uniform policy

re reading this she may just have to suck up the detentions.

so yes YABU

Edited

Wrong. If a person has been diagnosed with autism (so not in the op’s case atm) then the school MUST make reasonable adjustments. This could include a change of school shoe.
im sorry you went through that as did your friends- not sure how long ago that was but things have changed now and autism is recognised.

Whatafustercluck · 03/07/2025 07:53

Soontobe60 · 03/07/2025 07:37

So choose a school that doesnt have a uniform policy then!

Even if a school has a uniform policy (vast majority do), they must make reasonable adjustments for SEN (whether diagnosed or suspected). The op isn't expecting them to relax the rules to accommodate completely inappropriate footwear, such as Nike Air Force. She's gone for a very reasonable and sensible compromise.

Op, I sympathise with the school shoes issue. My 8yo dd had a pair for most of the year that she was happy with and they gave up the ghost a week ago. I explained that I wasn't going to buy her expensive ones for the remainder of the year and we spent more than an hour in the shoe shop trying on every single pair. The new ones are now problematic due to seams in the wrong place rubbing her feet, the velcro straps looking messy (her words) and her being unable to make them feel 'equal'. They were fine in the shop, but that's very different to wearing them all day every day.

With respect though, I think you went into battle with the school, rather than communicated to them the problem before what happened. In your situation, I'd have explained the sensory issues and asked them if we could come to a compromise, not just assumed that my solution was ok with them. Yes, many uniform policies are unnecessarily draconian. But in my experience, most schools will support a parent/ child who is struggling - whatever the reason.

Ddakji · 03/07/2025 07:52

RichardOsmanTheSecond · 03/07/2025 07:15

Fair enough question.

Current school - the usual plain black, unbranded sensible etc.

New school is an engineering UTC so steel toe cap boots.

Nornalschool shoes would be unsafe at her new school. Her current school would not allow steel toe cap boots.

Can you see Im not just being difficult? I never thought you could really see the difference between the both but now Ive started looking, shoes with steel toe caps are pretty obvious.

Edited

I didn’t think you were being difficult, I just couldn’t understand the situation. And that’s because the shoes in the new school aren’t school shoes at all, but specialist workwear.

I would go into her current school, properly explain the situation (ie don’t call the new footwear school shoes) and say she’ll be wearing what she’s been wearing for the last couple of days until the end of term.

What can they do? Nothing much.