to believe Rachel Reeves was crying because

I voted to smash the gangs.

If that’s what the country elected them to do, they’ve done exactly the opposite on every single metric.

She probably hadn't slept for three days! And the Labour Government are doing exactly what the country elected them to do, that is rebuild the country after fourteen years of Conservative destruction. NHS waiting lists are the longest in history, half the children in the UK don't have access to an NHS Dentist, schools are falling down because they should have been rebuilt a decade ago, etc, etc. Scandalous neglect by the CONSERVATIVES. THOSE are the issues MUMSNET should be getting angry about.

You clearly did write that and I can’t see anyone in the thread complaining about lack of carers. Can you explain your thought process a bit?

I’m not saying they should be paid the same for fucks sake!! I’m saying carers shouldn’t be paid the pittance they are right now and then being told they shouldn’t expect any help and should change careers if they’re not happy!! If everyone changed careers then there would be NO CARERS which is the point - we can’t pay people such low wages they need benefit top ups but then tell them if they’re not happy they should change careers then turn around and complain there’s a lack of carers.

If she has a personal issue she should stay at home and not start bubbling on worldwide tv.

It’s interesting you see it from the point of view of why bother going into care if you’re not going to get paid the same as a Dr, rather than why bother being a Dr if you get paid the same as a carer.

I have reached old age: I will be 80 in 8 months time. I have a chronic, disabling condition (Myalgic Encephalitus). I have had it for at least the last 15 years. I also have Type 2 diabetes, which I have had for at least the last 45 years. I worked from the age of 15 to the age of 74.

I am from a middle class background. My father died when I was ten years old. My mother reverted to her old career as an accountant, which kept us going, but without any luxuries.
I was fortunate enough to have an excellent education (private primary school, free grammar school, a bursary to an excellent university and a hefty grant for a professional career.
I last saw my GP in 2012 when I moved to this area, and registered with them.
I manage my disabilities and my income sufficiently well enough by eating enough to keep the diabetes at bay, and rest up enough to make sure that when I have to do something, I will have enough energy to be able to undertake it.
As noted by previous posters, I think that education is the gateway to the chance of a satisfying and productive life.

Quite agree!
Why are women especially, the labour party also, held to a way way way higher standard than the previous government?
The media are already in a frenzy attacking Labour and analysing them in a way the journalists never had the balls to do for the last decade and more of the Tories.

I imagine 50% of people being net recipients (receiving more benefit and tax breaks than they pay in) will include people of non-working age, ie children and OAPs. I'd be more interested in the figure for working age people only.

Possibly the statistics include the "benefit" of free health care - in which case if you reach old age, you will start running up a significant health care bill. But if you include that, you should also include all the VAT we pay on our goods and services every single day of our lives.

Yes, that was my point. The biggest barrier to educational success is cultural.

Doesn’t normally crash the bond market though!

Sorry it's George. Although I think his birth name was Gideon but he doesn't like it.

@DwimmerActually many old grammar pupils from poor areas are a testament to background not holding you back IF parents value education. I think the same holds true now. Dc who are failed come from families who don’t read to dc when they are young, do think people with an education have got above themselves and probably don’t think there’s anything wrong in low paid work or no work because it’s what they’ve done for generations. Of course parental aspiration matters! Just because dc are not well off doesn’t mean they have rubbish parents either.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2023

So you are saying a poor background is not a barrier to education if you parents value education?

I’d love to know where both the concept and figures come from. The only place I’ve ever seen it is MN.

To do otherwise is to disrespect your community and think you are better than them.

I’m quite interested in how your friend surmised that this is a cultural belief in the village. Do they live in the village, is this something the local discuss with an outsider if they are so insular? As a social researcher I’m genuinely interested.

Over 50% of UK individuals are net receipients - they receive more in benefits than they pay in taxes.

If your middle class friends can care for someone full time and support themselves with 0 help from anyone through uni then that’s great. But since the rest of your reply is a nasty stereotype, I doubt they exist. I’m from an ex mining town and my parents told me how important education is so I didn’t end up in jobs like they were in and could have a better life.

Most poor people don’t feel entitled, they’re too busy surviving.

People of working age whose earnings are below the income tax threshold do contribute, they pay NI (when earning over 240 quid a week) and they pay VAT.

The nuance is not where you think it is though - it is cultural. Middle classes have caring responsibilities too - my cousin went through medical school with two small children. Plenty of middle class medical students received no financial help from parents. Conversely, I have a friend who works in a school in an ex-mining village with multi-generational unemployment. The general belief is that education is mostly pointless (beyond its use for childcare), you don’t leave the village, and aspirations are to do what your parents do - live on benefits. To do otherwise is to disrespect your community and think you are better than them.

And if someone's too poor to pay tax, unlike you, I think it's reasonable that they shouldn't.

This is where entitlement starts - that poor people should receive and have no responsibility to contribute at all. And if they don’t feel they are receiving enough then the ‘rich’ must contribute more.

All the politicians seem inadequate and lightweight now.

I agree with you there, @smallglassbottle . There don't seem to be any great political thinkers any more. None of them could hold a candle to the likes of Butler, Gaitskell, Wilson, Heath. Gordon Brown was probably the last proper heavyweight to hold high office (and Robin Cook, RIP, he was proper smart).

I'm a lifelong Labour voter and member, and when I look at the Labour front bench, I just find myself thinking "Fuck, is this the best they can do?".

Then I look at the Tory front bench, and they're just as bad, but with even worse intentions.

I watch Denmark with interest, they seem to be a functionally socialist monarchy(!), and are experiencing some of the same issues with social cohesion that the UK are.
'Miss Smillas Feeling for Snow' has some interesting vibes about the Denmark/Greenland relationship- as well as being an evocative read.