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to believe Rachel Reeves was crying because

817 replies

LargeDeviation · 02/07/2025 19:44

  1. she was upset when Lindsay Hoyle told her to keep her answers short

  2. she had an argument with Keir Starmer (possibly about her keeping her job, or about how to handle the inevitable questions about the new £5.5bn per annum black hole) just before PMQs

  3. Keir Starmer refused to say she would keep her job in front of the whole country. If he genuinely wanted her to stay, he would just say 'of course she's going to still be Chancellor' and that would be that.

  4. she is under immense pressure because she knows she will have soon to breach her fiscal rules, she knows she is responsible for many of the decisions that will lead to that, and she knows the how serious the consequences of her failure will be. We have seen recently (even just today) how vicious the bond market can be.

In short, I believe she was crying because of professional pressures (understandable ones, though largely of her own making, and about which I have little sympathy) and not nebulous 'personal' reasons.

If her parent or partner or child or grandparent or pet is ill the natural thing is to just say 'sorry, a close relative is in hospital and my emotions got the better of me'. Everybody would understand. You don't need huge reams of evidence but you need to give the bare bones of an explanation. She is trying to style it out but we can all see through it.

I will apologise if I'm wrong but long experience shows that 'personal reasons' almost always means 'I'm skiving or jobhunting' when a colleague in the workplace uses it to excuse their time off.

I believe it means even less when uttered by a politican.

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Araminta1003 · 11/07/2025 09:21

I do agree that we need more investment in policing and law and order and digital ID cards for all, to be checked regularly. Would mean regular immigration checks possible in all barber shops, car washes, take-always - these are places of human trafficking now and it is not kind to let it go unchecked.
The system here really is rotten and inefficient. We need less airy fairy, more efficiency and more crack down. That is clear. I do think Covid made a lot of it worse, but mental health issues, addiction (drugs, county lines, screens etc) - I feel a lot of society needs a more positive attitude to health including mental health and more positivity.

MyNameIsX · 11/07/2025 07:17

Araminta1003 · 10/07/2025 19:59

You mean bring back the death penalty? Rather than spend millions on keeping them for life? That is not going to happen in a civilised society.

Capital punishment will not make a return to the UK, but what is also certain is that an increasing number of people will lose their lives at the end of a blade.

The correlation between diminishing economic prospects, declining social cohesion, and violent crime, is clear.

ladywindemeresbucket · 11/07/2025 07:10

Araminta1003 · 10/07/2025 19:59

You mean bring back the death penalty? Rather than spend millions on keeping them for life? That is not going to happen in a civilised society.

You think we have a "civilised society"? Really?

Knife crime at an all-time high, one rape every 15 minutes in London, shops being robbed with impunity, police not turning out for house burglaries.
With a murder rate of 13.1 per million people, London had the highest homicide rate among UK regions in 2023/24.

Yup really "civilised".

LBFseBrom · 10/07/2025 22:15

Suicide is one thing, assisted suicide involves someone else and that is a different matter altogether.

chaosmaker · 10/07/2025 21:17

I want assisted dying for myself. I genuinely can't see how keeping people alive just because you can when they don't want to be alive is in anyone's interests.
Don't start making a straw man argument about disabled people, some of whom may chose to end their life as non disabled people might when in extreme pain. I include mental pain in this.

EasternStandard · 10/07/2025 20:58

MyNameIsX · 10/07/2025 20:27

A party of those who work and contribute? That would be hilarious, if it wasn’t so tragic.

Labour are the last lot I want managing the economy, thank you. They have been an unmitigated disaster, so far - look at the ratings, look at the markets, and a Government held hostage by the back benches.

Agree

Praying4Peace · 10/07/2025 20:46

Extravirginolive · 02/07/2025 20:22

She isn't under any more pressure than any other chancellor before her.

Harsh

ThisOldThang · 10/07/2025 20:43

They're the party of scroungers and public sector bed featherers.

MyNameIsX · 10/07/2025 20:27

Araminta1003 · 10/07/2025 20:20

What seems to be happening now is that Tories are defecting to Reform, far left will defect to a new Corbynite Party, leaving Labour to take centre stage if they play things right, which means a party of those who work and contribute, governing from the centre. Which is the only way to govern. And with a close relationship to the EU.

A party of those who work and contribute? That would be hilarious, if it wasn’t so tragic.

Labour are the last lot I want managing the economy, thank you. They have been an unmitigated disaster, so far - look at the ratings, look at the markets, and a Government held hostage by the back benches.

Araminta1003 · 10/07/2025 20:20

What seems to be happening now is that Tories are defecting to Reform, far left will defect to a new Corbynite Party, leaving Labour to take centre stage if they play things right, which means a party of those who work and contribute, governing from the centre. Which is the only way to govern. And with a close relationship to the EU.

Allisnotlost1 · 10/07/2025 20:18

Oh Jesus, we’re at the ‘run out of money, let’s kill people’ stage already? That didn’t take long.

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Araminta1003 · 10/07/2025 19:59

You mean bring back the death penalty? Rather than spend millions on keeping them for life? That is not going to happen in a civilised society.

ThisOldThang · 10/07/2025 19:27

I'd prefer it if we started with the convicted terrorists and murderers in prisons?

ThisTicklishFatball · 10/07/2025 16:20

chaosmaker · 10/07/2025 13:26

Maybe not making people live for so much longer than they want to would also help. I'm worried what the lords will do to the tiny hope we have in the assisted dying bill.

I'm fully supportive of an assisted dying bill under very specific and highly regulated circumstances.
What criteria would you use to decide who might willingly step up to support the NHS in a drastic way? Would you personally be willing to commit to such a cause?
I'm about to add an overly exaggerated amount of sarcasm here.
The future seems uncertain for many healthy individuals who fear becoming burdens on the NHS as they age or develop chronic illnesses, leading some to consider the option of an assisted dying bill. What about those who don’t want to live beyond 40 because they’re afraid of being a burden on the NHS?
Most people would likely jump at the chance to use the assisted dying bill to get rid of those troublesome pensioners who dare to claim their pensions. Why not just fast-track the assisted dying bill and extend it to all disabled people who can't afford to live on their income? Imagine the long-term savings, right?

chaosmaker · 10/07/2025 13:26

Maybe not making people live for so much longer than they want to would also help. I'm worried what the lords will do to the tiny hope we have in the assisted dying bill.

Allisnotlost1 · 10/07/2025 06:59

ThisOldThang · 10/07/2025 06:23

If we'd fully left the EU, we'd have been free to set our domestic laws to prevent it. We didn't and we agreed to abide by certain rules to get access to the single market.

Our politicians even agreed to stupid rules regarding 'unfair competition' that prevent us lowering corporation tax to entice companies into the UK.

It’s not EU law that prevents the UK making those changes, it’s a political and economic choice.

ThisOldThang · 10/07/2025 06:23

Allisnotlost1 · 09/07/2025 21:14

Surely domestic law is what needs to change to fully end this practice? (If that’s even the right strategy)

If we'd fully left the EU, we'd have been free to set our domestic laws to prevent it. We didn't and we agreed to abide by certain rules to get access to the single market.

Our politicians even agreed to stupid rules regarding 'unfair competition' that prevent us lowering corporation tax to entice companies into the UK.

Allisnotlost1 · 09/07/2025 21:22

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 19:09

How many people’s lives were saved or improved by your husband’s work? Fuck potholes, lives are more important.

No doubt but that will be true of plenty of less well paid roles too, including in medicine. Nurses, paramedics, radiographers, cleaners, porters, phlebotomists… all of them necessary to save and improve those lives. We can’t promise gold plated retirements to every individual who did good work though. Good public services should be available which would reduce reliance on individual purchasing power and the need for big pensions for some jobs. It’s unpopular but pensions could be a good place to start.

Allisnotlost1 · 09/07/2025 21:14

ThisOldThang · 09/07/2025 17:11

The EU Single Market allows companies to pay money through the Netherlands as 'intellectual property royalties'. The Dutch have a zero percent tax in that area. Closing the loophole would require unanimous agreement in the EU and the Dutch won't agree because they have so many very well paid accountancy and legal jobs that are dependent upon it. Those workers pay a huge amount of tax.

Starbucks and other companies use that loophole to avoid paying tax. Starbucks UK pay shuge royalty payments to Starbucks Netherlands for the use of the Starbucks brand. That reduces their profits to zero and therefore their tax bill to zero.

We'd need a full no-deal Brexit to do anything about it.

Surely domestic law is what needs to change to fully end this practice? (If that’s even the right strategy)

Vinvertebrate · 09/07/2025 20:34

I’m not feeling terrible @ThisTicklishFatball - I’m actually feeling pretty chipper about it. (Post-retirement, DH will likely continue with his private practice in the UK while I spend 6 months a year abroad, maybe in the Gulf - we’ve had some lovely holidays in Oman). And even if I were feeling terrible, it’s not mine to give up.

FWIW my DC pension is bog-standard and whilst I am a high earner contributing 10% matched by my employer, the annuity value is a shade over a quarter of DH’s. Part of the problem is that many recipients of DB/final salary pensions don’t fully realise how much they cost, the implications of them being unfunded, what “gold-played” actually means or the value of the annuity they could purchase privately with similar salary sacrifice.

Yes we could manage without DH’s pension, having done as much as we lawfully could to avoid paying tax at AR on DH’s private income.

I appreciate that we are fortunate, but also recognize (because adult) that the UK cannot continue accruing ever more trillions in unfunded pension liabilities whilst keeping the IMF wolf from the door. It doesn’t matter how much NHS employees protest, unfortunately - we simply cannot afford all the nice things we would like. The optics of UK taxpayers - on their relatively poor salaries, who cannot even access NHS healthcare easily and enjoy some of the worst health outcomes of any developed country - being taxed to the hilt so that consultants already on 6-figure salaries can retire in the lap of luxury, is a bit too Orwellian for me. And I’m not exactly a card-carrying socialist.

ThisTicklishFatball · 09/07/2025 19:59

@Vinvertebrate
If you're seriously feeling terrible about the amount your husband and, by extension, you will receive as an occupational pension, why not consider asking him to give it up? Would that work out well? Do you both have enough income from investments to maintain a high quality of life after retirement? Is there no risk of regret, resentment, or bitterness from making poor decisions?

The occupational pension is a great benefit, and it's one of the main reasons people stay working in the NHS. Giving it up is complete madness unless other investments in life are just as good to make it worthwhile.

It's also worth noting that giving up the pension won't genuinely help the NHS. The NHS's issues won't be resolved by employees making a collective and irrational decision to sacrifice their pensions in an attempt to save it.

Vinvertebrate · 09/07/2025 19:35

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 19:09

How many people’s lives were saved or improved by your husband’s work? Fuck potholes, lives are more important.

Well fucktonnes, obviously, but what’s that got to do with whether the UK can afford the largesse of a £2 million pension pot per NHS doctor? I’m not proposing indentured slavery, just a reasonable DC pension (such as those enjoyed by all the taxpayers funding it) for NHS staff.

Anyway, it’s a nice problem to have (selfishly) but obviously public sector pensions are wildly off-market compared to everybody else’s.

BIossomtoes · 09/07/2025 19:09

Vinvertebrate · 09/07/2025 14:48

More to the point, how many people’s tax went only to fund all those millions of multi-million NHS pots, before a single child was educated or pothole fixed? How many of those people are working FT yet earning less than DH will receive after retirement? The amounts at stake are boggling, and as I wrote, the NHS is just one example. Too many snouts in the trough wanting to kick the can further down the road, I suspect.

How many people’s lives were saved or improved by your husband’s work? Fuck potholes, lives are more important.

Googlygogglygoo · 09/07/2025 18:13

But Starbucks pays no tax apparently. Obviously if these questions are put to them every now and again by a polite well mannered journalist they're not under any real pressure but if real pressure could be brought to bear maybe something could be achieved?

Vinvertebrate · 09/07/2025 17:47

Anyone can pay as much voluntary tax as they like at any time! Just gift it to HMRC. 🤷🏻‍♀️

The obvious and complete response to “you don’t pay enough tax” is “we pay everything that is legally required”. You can’t judge what is “fair” unless you look at the whole group’s structure, location(s) and P&L’s (and probably not even then, unless you’re a tax accountant).

Directors are legally required (on pain of some fairly onerous consequences) to act in the best interests of the company, not the Exchequers of the multiple markets in which that company does business (which are often adverse to the interests of the shareholders).

Most decent corporates already make significant contributions to charitable and community initiatives.

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