Am I expecting too much from ND pre-teen?

Also my 12 is (helpfully) rigidly rule obeying which does make a difference in his compliance.

He likes loopholes though so home rules are carefully drafted

@MummyYummyof3 you mentioned in your first response that your DS is on meds - can I ask which meds?DD(9) is newly on meds (concerta xl) but that doesn't help her in the mornings - she has a routine but as PPs have said, gets stuck in between tasks and needs constant help. Appreciate she's still young but keen to try to install more independence - if we nag, she shuts down and goes even slower!!!

I’m just posting in solidarity really. I’m also exhausted of walking on eggshells around my ND family. I’m burned out of anticipating their needs and changing massive parts of my personality so as not to trigger them. It’s combining with my own perimenopausal rage. I just said ‘FFS’ to my kid yesterday - I didn’t even manage to suppress it. This was very wrong of me. But it’s very hard 💐to be a specific version of yourself. And even harder that no one in the family actually ever seems ‘happy’ with ‘eggshells’ me. It’s more like if I have my actual personality everything goes badly. It inevitably makes me feel like a really horrible person. Sorry that was a totally unhelpful reply.

Play audiobook while drawing? My auadhd dc finds it soothing, he doesnt brother to read often just getting jnto bed to continue listening to his book

(Double posting, sorry)

honestly if the lift to school is leading to conflict I’d knock it on the head.

tell her that she’s a big girl now and it’s time to be learning some skills to help her in adult life and one of those is getting to school on her own.

does she walk or cycle or bus if she goes independently? Then you can frame it as you are helping her learn adult skills.

if she is walking or cycling then she’s good to go on her own. If it’s bus it’ll help you do a few practice runs with her but the reasoning of this is a skill you need is a lot more obviously true.

My son is also 12 and the transition to secondary has been very, very hard. It’s magnified his ND behaviours significantly.

We have built a very good relationship with the SEN department and he is spending part of most days in the SEN hub to reduce his overwhelm at school.

His morning routine is very supervised: up by 7.15, dressed by 7.40, breakfast then out at 7.55 for a lift to school. Bags and uniform are prepared the night before after homework is complete. He sleeps very heavily and doesn’t wake up to alarms so mornings are the flash point

After school there are two hours of decompression time, then homework and music practice (supervised), dinner, then own activities until about 8.30 (often gaming) when his brother goes up to bed (also autistic, and they share a room), and he feeds his fish at this stage. Sometimes Boy12 goes up, gets ready for bed and reads quietly until lights out, sometimes he watches one of his comfort zone programmes on tv downstairs.

he is upstairs and in bed by 9.30 BUT still finds it hard to get to sleep

we have a smart light/speaker in their room which plays sleep music and gradually dims from 9.00-10.30 with the reverse in the morning. This helps both boys

no screens in their room at all, blackout blind, window open a bit year round for fresh air

that’s our schedule and it mostly works for us but not perfectly

What happens if you remove yourself from the whole bedtime circus? At our house for our 12 year old, the non-negotiables are brushing of teeth and showering every other day. After that, once they are upstairs, what they do is up to them (we have no screens upstairs, so they can't watch TV/use phones etc). Reading/drawing/whatever as long as they don't disturb others. So only 1 or 2 demands, depending on whehter it is a shower day or not.

One thing jumped out at me is that she takes melatonin quite late. It take 1 to 2 hours to work.
I would be giving her melatonin at 8.30 before she heads upstairs. We also brush teeth downstairs to minimise bathroom flaff.

I have an AuDHD child.

don’t bother talking to her about your needs. She is very unlikely to take it in.

if you want her to do stuff try framing it as:
this will give you skills you need (we used that for cooking, riding bikes, and getting to school independently)

my DD still has time blindness. Your DD will get stuck at various parts of her routine. This is part of the adhd.

meds - they are usually taken in the morning and then possible fast acting top ups in the afternoon. They’ll be wearing off by evening. The impact very much varies from person to person. They will probably help your mornings but not so much your evenings.

Oh my goodness yes about showing any frustration. It leads of accusations of not being kind/ nice or being mean here.

and @discov am also exhausted as I feel like I spend my whole life bending over backwards for her and it’s still not good enough.

DH really really struggles with this too. I cope a bit better but reminding myself that in some ways, this age, especially with ND, are basically complete covert narcissists. Their brains simply haven't matured enough, combined with the inability to self regulate, means that they are hugely self centered, completely lacking in rational thinking (particularly when upset) and genuinely believe they are the victims. Also, all narcissists get their "supply" from the reactions of the people aroud them, even if they are negative. So you have to withdraw that supply.

It was so so hard in the beginning but the fights me and DS used to have regularly were SOOO bad. I would be upset, he would be upset, nothing would improve. And I find it so much easier now when I just say, "No, that's not true" and walk away. I know that deep down he knows it's not true - it's the very fact that he DOES feel so safe with me that allows him to have these meltdowns in the first place. But as he's got older, I've felt that I have to help him learn to manage it better but I can't expedct him to be rational. So I just have to refuse to engage.

But the good news is that I can SEE that he IS maturing. That some of that self absorbedness is starting to dissipate. That he IS learning to be rational in his understanding of arguments. That he is starting to be able to look more objectively at the situation and know that I'm not doing things to "be mean". I assume it's a long term process, but seeing those improvements today vs two years ago, gives me hope.

Also, I thihnk you said she's in year 7? It's a tough year - high school transition is hard. And it's a bloody LONG year. we tend to find that behaviour and challenges for DS are always worse from April-July. But, I'm here to tell you, that this year (year 9), it's not been great .... but nowhere NEAR as bad as the last 3 years. Things DO change.

Thankfully we don’t get the accusations of being mean etc, but for dd it manifests as her spiralling into feeling so awful about herself and she gets stuck in a loop of emotional self destruction.

But the high standards and expectations thing is what is really getting to me at the moment. She is such a perfectionist and has an idea in her head of how everything should be and how everyone should behave, and when it doesn’t happen the way she envisioned then it’s very bad. I feel like I am just put on this earth to make the impossible happen for her. And of course it’s barely ever appreciated.

Sorry I am venting now but I am sure you understand!!

I know, it's so hard. One thing I would say is that if you cut it off much sooner, those tanturms might be much earlier too <tiny tiny silver lining?>

Re the money worries with the meds, I get that too. We had a tough period a yea or so ago and it was a nightmare. Now that meds are stable, we can keep costs down by

1. Buying in bulk - we get 3 months at a time which removes the repeat prescription fee and the pharmacy does seem to give a bulk discount and
2. we don't actually medicate all the time. Every day for school, yes. But on weekends and holidays he often doesn't take them. that is largely his choice but it works for me. I do insist over longer holidas that he takes them at least once or twice a week as there seems to be an emotional disregulation build up which I don't really understand but definitely experience. But it does mean that overall, buying 3 months at a time, I can do that rougly 3 times a year rather than 4.

Also agree about routine being too complicated. Simplify and combine steps

I would try to leave drawing as the last step after pj and washing teeth etc. Sit with her 5 min then leave her to draw and turn off the light herself when tired.
Not allowed to come and disturb you after pj and teeth are done.

Just one more thing, sorry to keep coming back but it's because I SOOO get this. I know nothing about AuADHD, but so much of this behaviour is recognisable in DS.

Re the bedtime routine - I completely and totally get that each of these things calm her and help her to regulate. BUT, I also know that the more copmlicated a routine is, the more difficult it actually is for DS. Is there a way to combine any of the steps?

So, for example, DS now routinely showers earlier in the evening, which means his bedtime routine is really just about brushing his teeth, without having to change and think about washing his face etc.

Can she light the candles etc as she's getting ready for drawing - so this atmosphere is created earlier. I'd also be suggesting she takes her melatonin BEFORE the drawing stage.

The 30 odd minutes for drawing - does it need to be that long? with DS, that would start to get into the place where he just wants to keep going. Can you cut it? Or, be more proactive about warning her the end slot is coming? eg after 15 minutes - "right, bed time in 10 minnutes.... " In bed, with book - five minute warnings (build in negotiation time).

DD is not, as far as I know, ADHD but I suspect she has a few traits. There is no doubt whatsoever that if I have to stop her from getting too INTO anything she's doing pre bed. 10 minutes per activiy max, otherwise, the fact that she is actually getting rady to bed escapes he rmind and is a complete surprise to her!

There’s also a great FB group called ‘Parents of Autistic Girls UK’ which I find really helpful.

Your dd sounds just like my dd. She is 11 and leaving primary school this year. We have the long drawn out bedtimes and DH & I spend no time together as a result. The bedtime thing is very much dictated by how well she is coping at school etc. If she’s had a bad day then it’s game over. It’s particularly difficult at the minute as the end of Y6 has been a nightmare with all the different activities and changes going on, so she’s so disregulated all the time.

I am also exhausted as I feel like I spend my whole life bending over backwards for her and it’s still not good enough. I genuinely have the patience of a saint with her and even I show even a slight bit of frustration then she thinks I am extremely angry and it turns into an ‘I’m the worst daughter/person ever’ type of meltdown, so I am exhausted from masking my frustration and playing all gently gently 24/7. But you have to cut yourself some slack as we all know tough love absolutely does not work with kids like ours and it sounds like you are doing your best.

Sorry I don’t really have any advice. But just wanted to show solidarity.

To add to my post above, I do think you n eed to consider the meds. I fully appreciate ehow expensive it is - it's CRAZY and our doctor stopped doing shared care about a month before we finally got the dosage right. I cried.

I also think that those reminders can be built in re bed time. So, for example, if this was me, I'd just be poping in to give her that "five minute" warning, while Im overseeing the younger one's teeth etc. Alarms also did NOT work for us ever, just added to the estress so I totally hear that for you.

I'm also going to reiterate my point above about letting her tantrum without trying to rationalise or argue with her. They can't hear the rational argument in those moments. It is better to simply let her burn out. I foudn that so so hard at first - DS was so genuinely distressed - but actually, I've found that over time, on some level he seems to realise what's happening so he calms down much quicker and we can get on with our day accordingly.

Great post, everything @MageQueen has said. Once my daughter has got herself spiralling I know thst there is no way yo reason, take a step away & allow her, and you, to breathe x