Am I expecting too much from ND pre-teen?

Definitely boundaries. Ignore the 'you're mean to me'. It should not be 'heartbreaking', and she isn't 'sobbing', she is 'ranting'. You know you're not mean or unkind. This is toddler behaviour. Mean because you are insisting that everyone gets some rest and gets out the house on time? Try again love!
Your poor DS. Not your fault but he must be so fed up.

INcidentally, the "spiral of doom" as I call it (x10 late at night) is an issue I've had to have firm words with SIl about. She'd let him spiral when he was spending time with her, then SHE would spiral and start sending me 100000 messages about how worried about him she was.

Oh god, in light of the fat that I'm fairly certain every member of DH's family has ADHD, albeit undiagnosed, I just realised that increasingly, I also take this approach with SIL. She was spiralling just this week on something and I 100% took the banana/toddler approach with her. haha.

I also 100% agree with @MrsEmmelinePankhurst that she's likely at her worst right now from a year of hectic school and that any chanes you want to implement, probalby will work best once you'ave had a break from the school routine.

This is a very very interesting response. Part of the reason for my "childrens are narcissists, especially ND children" theory, is this exact dynamic - where, by any objective standard, you are literally being AMAZING, but you question everything because of the (unreasonable) expectations of the child/narcissist.

So let me translate your post for you with the benefit of no emotions towards this situation:

"I can't take all her preferences into account" - this suggests that you thin you are failing. You are attempting to defend and explain why you can't do this - because it's never ending. But for most parents and adults, taking someone's preferences into account does not mean accomodating every one in every way. It's the difference between ensuring sufficient vegetarian options and feeling forced to offer entirely vegetarian menu becuase Great Aunty Mary doesn't like to be around meat eating. taking preferences into account is not about buying all the clothes and make up she wants, it's agreeing that within your budget she can shop at her preferred place and not be forced to wear Boden.

She would prefer to stay in bed reading until 11 each morning. She would prefer that I always made her breakfast and lunch and that I always put her stuff in the dishwasher. I don't feel bad about not accommodating these preferences all the time. - Excellent. Becuase that's just parenting!

I do feel like we're engaged. I do feel like we're supportive. I do feel we take her needs into account. But maybe we're not doing it in the right way? - remeber, for her at this point in her life and development, the only "right way" is HER way. That's not her fault. But it's not yours either and you shouldn't take responsibility for it.

She info-dumps on me or DH as soon as she sees us after we've been apart (e.g. at school). This will include often a litany of complains about what other people have and haven't done. It's hard to be a sponge with infinite capacity for this and I'll admit that after years and years of this sometimes I tune out. Especially if she's telling me something she told me already. It can be quite overwhelming at times. You sound like you feel guilty becuase you're not letting her go on and on and on about something? But honestly, why? She's 12. It's perfectly right for her to share her worries with you. But she doesn't get to just go round and round endlessly on the same issue, especialyl if she's not listening to advice or interested in changing things (which, if she's like my children, I'm guessing is the case). You are NOT a bad parent nor are you not accomodating her if you draw a line after a certain amount of time.

INcidentally, the "spiral of doom" as I call it (x10 late at night) is an issue I've had to have firm words with SIl about. She'd let him spiral when he was spending time with her, then SHE would spiral and start sending me 100000 messages about how worried about him she was.

There's a huge difference between listening to and respecting their worries and concerns, and accomodating this sort of spiral. It's no different to the toddler who is upset becuase you cut th ebanana. They're upset. So what do you do? You commiserate for a bit. You say sorry. You suggest that they try a different banana. Then you start to realise they're just being annoying. So perhaps you aim for distraction and humour. Hopeflly that works. if it doesn't work, you take the banana away and let them whinge for a bit until they get distracted or bored. If the issue is real, next time, when you don't cut the banana, they'll happily eat the whole banana. If the issue isn't real, they'll just eat the cut up banana again.

I think you may need to look backwards - you said in one of your posts that your DD is calmer / finds bedtime easier during the school holidays. So maybe school just is too much for her right now? Maybe you need to take her out of school for a while, to allow her to rest and reset. Her brain must be in turmoil with AuDHD and hormones. Sorry if I’ve missed her age in your posts but I’m assuming 11 or 12? That’s a horrendous age for autistic / ADHD girls, as both conditions are hugely impacted by oestrogen. Loads of ND girls manage to cope at primary school but then fall apart at secondary, once puberty has played its horrible part….

As a family you all need a break. Education can be handled in many different ways once DD is calmer. But right now it sounds as though life might be improved for all of you if DD had a break. Then once she’s fully reset, you can look at next steps.

I work in a school and I’ve seen this scenario so many times - inevitably it’s school that’s the problem. She will still be able to study and work in future, but she needs a break right now. As do you

she will accuse me or ignoring her or abandoning her

Serious question - are you confident that this is just her perception? That you are engaged, and that you support her and that you listen to her and take her needs and preferences and wants into account?

Because if so, it doesn't matter what she accuses you of. DS accuses me of all sorts of things. And in the beginning, walking away felt impossible. And then I did it. And the next day, he was fine and we carried on as normal. And then I did it again. And believe it or not, the same happened - we just picked up as normal later.

There have been times where whatever the issue is does need to be addressed again at a later stage when we are both calm. But I'm learning more and more how to separate the real issues from the ones that are just his emotional disregulation talking.

Here's a very minor, but very amusing example: Last week, DS was in an absolute state because I asked him if he wanted to come swimming. He was incandescent with rage becuase he had been thinking about meeting some friends at the pool and how dare I even consider going swimming. The weird bit was not even that he was upset that now his plan would be ruuined (in his perception), no, he was absolutely furious that I'd even thought of it. Like I should have magically known that he might want to go to the pool AND that should have made me decide not to go to the pool. I was accused of "ruining everything" and "being selfish" and "not understanding". there was more "you always do this" and "you just wnt to monitor everything I'm doing." etc etc.

I told him he was being ridiculous and continued to get ready for the pool, occassionally reiterating he was welcome to come along.

He did not come with us.

But what WAS funny is that he did turn up later. Obviously, we all pretended not to see each other, but he did turn up. And his fun was NOT ruined. And then when we all got home later, I made a nice dinner.

The end of chapter 5403928 in the "Craziness of an adolescent, hormonal, ADHD child"

Reading your opening post my daughter is exactly like yours. No advice from me as I certainly havent got it cracked but I've been absorbing the advice from ither posters.
We have done the alarms (stressed her out). Picture chore charts, etc. I've done tripple p course on anxiety, challenging behaviour and teenagers. I've taken part in online courses for understanding autism. She had done numerous course. Goes to the autistic girls network meeting every other week.
Still not found the right routine for her without me inwardly crying daily.
We are ot the waiting list for CAHMS but who knows how much longer it will be.

Sorry OP but if you’re referring to your DD as “high functioning” then you actually aren’t clued up on neurodivergence at all 😢

She’s high masking (maybe). But she’s not high functioning. She’s clearly NOT coping.

“High functioning” is used by people to mean that the ND person behaves in a way that doesn’t cause any bother to others. It bears no relation to how the ND person actually manages to get through each day. It’s a very ableist, offensive term. And you’re using it to refer to your daughter. Have a think about what she’s actually experiencing, not what you are experiencing.

Yes you are expecting too much from her. You can get there but you need to work with her, not impose frightening boundaries on her suddenly.

(I’m autistic, I suspect I also have ADHD, and am a parent to 2 ND teens/young adults).

I have an AuDHD daughter who is 14. She is an absolute sweetheart, but she just doesn't seem to see me as a person with needs and wants And sometimes it seems as if she is breathtakingly inconsiderate.

She does demand a lot of me. I often say I feel like I'm working really hard to slightly disappoint her! However, I have found that it actually helps us both having explicit boundaries. So, for me, I tell her I don't parent after 10pm (maybe this is mean, but I get up at 5am and I'm knackered), she is also not allowed to come in to ask me things when I'm in the bath (still working on this one).

Takes a bit of time to implement but then she knows exactly where she is and can work around it. As you have summer holidays coming up, when she will have less demand during the day and the disruption to her brother and her own sleep is less damaging you could try and put a couple of boundaries in place.

Obviously you keep all the loving and nurturing parenting the rest of the time and I wouldn't put a massive change in as it will be too much. Start low and build slow.

The trick is to be more like them I think. So I don't spend ages explaining it or talking about my feelings. I just say "i need my own time and so I'm doing this now" and it becomes a new fact of life. This doesn't work with you trying to get them to do stuff (cos demand) but I find does work if it is something you are putting in place for yourself.

Personal advice:

me and my then husband switched out.

I would often get to the point where I just couldn’t cope. I would then ask my thenH to pick up bedtimes etc for a few days just to give me a break.

she is presumably in the dog end of the school term at the moment. She is tired, you are tired. It’s not a particularly good time to introduce new things.

i’d suggest stepping back.

you say you WFH - get up early and go
out to a coffee shop/co
working space to do your work outside the house. She cannot argue with you if you are not physically there.

same for bedtime - ask
if DH can pick it up
for a few days and either go
out (do you have a dog that needs long evening walks?) or get a lock on your study door and headphones to watch your tv programmes through.

I used Boardmaker symbols for morning and evening routines. We also did ‘show me 5’ where I held my five fingers up and she pushed down how many were done. I found it helped to not have any spoken language at these times.

Yoto in her room for settling to sleep. Melatonin 30 minutes before bed. Weighted blanket. Fairy lights to keep the room dim. Blackout curtains.

Check in times at specific intervals after ‘tuck in’. Saying, ‘I will check on you in x minutes.’ Sticking to that precisely.

Hi
similar situation with my daughter although she's a bit younger.
re the medication - depending on what she's prescribed, it may not be as expensive as you think. Mine is on two medications - her instant release methylphenidate (which has the biggest positive impact on her ADHD and executive functioning) costs us about £20 a month. Asda pharmacy are the absolute best for not adding mark up and sell it at cost price for children's private prescriptions. Her other medication was added later due to issues with eating and is more expensive at £80 per month. We've just managed to get shared care for both her and me, which will help massively.
Routines cause nothing but stress for our daughter. They do the opposite for her of what they do for neurotypical children. We have taken all pressure out of bed times and totally removed any idea of a routine. The bedtime routine, she associates with being told what to do, being on her own, being lonely, being in the dark. All negatives. As long as teeth are brushed twice a day, it doesn't have to be before bed (for us.) pyjamas/comfies are put on at some point after dinner but not as part of a nighttime routine. She can sleep in her joggers if that's what she wants, or shorts, whatever she chooses. She does a lot of sport so showers happen after that at the venue. Her wind down activity (drawing, reading, music, watching her phone) takes place in her bed so she knows it's a place to relax and she can do that until she falls asleep. She also takes one of her meds at night and we need to try to give that a bit earlier in the evening as she associates that with bed now and gets angry.
Could you try a light on a dimmer that gradually gets lower (then you aren't switching it off and taking away her control) and let her draw in bed?

I highly recommend ADHD Dude (no I don't get commission) - he has a great webinar on structured bedtimes, and also material on getting away from prompts, and helping with sensing time.

Seriously can't recommend it enough. Ignore everyone who says "it's not neurodiverse affirming" because what they mean is he actually teaches you how to get your DC to do something age appropriate.

oh yes, I recognise this. My sister has a lot of thoughts and opinoins that she thinks very very loudly!