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Two Tier’s days are numbered

657 replies

Jennps · 02/07/2025 06:37

Starmer will be gone by this time next year.

This government is imploding right before our eyes, despite a huge (but shallow) majority. People didn’t vote for Labour, as much as they voted against the diabolical Tories in the last election.

Coupled with that, the calibre of MPs in general, but especially the new Labour MPs is shockingly low. These are people who have never had real jobs, and found themselves accidentally in charge of the country. Most them would struggle to use a calculator, let alone understand how the economy works.

Bond markets are already punishing ‘Rachel from accounts’. Cue the insults about misogyny despite the fact that calling her from accounts is an insult to those who actually work in accounts. Gilts are already above when Truss was in charge, meaning the situation is worse. Crazy tax hikes are on the way. Top rate taxpayers are leaving the country in droves.

Boat crossings are at a record high. Unemployment is up, inflation is on the increase. The country is at very real risk of recession.

If Starmer falls, his replacement candidates are terrifying. It’s possible the government could fall within 2 years or so. The chances of Reform getting into power will increase many fold if there is a snap election in that timeframe.

Wonder if the economically illiterate, constantly wanting to constantly shake the magic money tree, are ready for Reform.

OP posts:
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Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:56

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:52

No. Are you saying Dominic Cummings suggests we should shoot people smugglers?

Read it and understand it Jackie Weaver! I have simply pasted his interview.

I suspect he's saying this is a simple solution to a complex problem. Which it is. But whether he thinks it's actually a good idea is hard to tell. I'm a lawyer (embarrassingly) so I wouldn't advocate shooting people personally. But it's not my own views I'm suggesting we look at.

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:54

Or otherwise allow special forces to kill them? Sorry sounds completely detached from reality

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:52

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:51

No. They don't advocate anything. They interviewed Dominic.Cummings and reported what he said. Which I have copied and pasted above verbatim. Are you unable to read something and argue against something that you disagree with?

No. Are you saying Dominic Cummings suggests we should shoot people smugglers?

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:51

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:49

Really. The Telegraph advocates killing people smugglers? Let’s see it.

No. They don't advocate anything. They interviewed Dominic.Cummings and reported what he said. Which I have copied and pasted above verbatim. Are you unable to read something and argue against something that you disagree with?

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:49

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:48

I'm not trying to persuade anyone of whether he's right or wrong. I copied it from a mainstream paper (The Telegraph) and then asked what do people think. Would it work? I have no idea. But he has been in government (or appended to government anyway) unlike the rest of us on this thread so has a view that could be reasonably discussed.

Really. The Telegraph advocates killing people smugglers? Let’s see it.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:48

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:45

You don’t know? Yes you do.

i don’t know how you vote, but I cannot think of a mainstream party this extreme

I'm not trying to persuade anyone of whether he's right or wrong. I copied it from a mainstream paper (The Telegraph) and then asked what do people think. Would it work? I have no idea. But he has been in government (or appended to government anyway) unlike the rest of us on this thread so has a view that could be reasonably discussed.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:46

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 02/07/2025 19:42

I’m not sure what your point is? I don’t think you are either.

My point is that there aren't many people on mumsnet on the politics threads that don't already have fairly robust views of their own. And most posts don't have a "profound effect" (your words) on other people. Most people presumably just come on to chew the fat with others of opposing views as to the issues of the day.

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:45

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:41

Well, yes. Presumably the aim is to shock the people smugglers into stopping the dangerous crossings that cost the lives of many each year. I don't know.

You don’t know? Yes you do.

i don’t know how you vote, but I cannot think of a mainstream party this extreme

GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing · 02/07/2025 19:42

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 17:40

Hang on. Are you saying that posts on mumsnet have a "profound effect on the views of others "? By "others" do you mean gullible people that can't spot a troll. Not like wily people like you obviously.

I seriously doubt it.

I’m not sure what your point is? I don’t think you are either.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:41

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:33

I think the part about kill is rather extreme - and quite revealing

Well, yes. Presumably the aim is to shock the people smugglers into stopping the dangerous crossings that cost the lives of many each year. I don't know.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:37

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:32

I have no idea what DC thinks would work, and no belief that anything he thinks would work.

ETA: I’ve read your post and I stand by the second half of my statement above. That rubbish reads like an A level debate. Migration is a global issue, repealing domestic law creates international legal problems that are far greater than small boats. Yes, it’s a problem, yes, it needs a solution but dear old Dom is thinks the solution to anything is to turn and walk away. Look how fantastically that turned out with Brexit.

You’ve acknowledged that you don’t know the first thing about the immigration system and yet you think that what he says would work. The malevolent leading the blind.

Edited

It was just in a few posts up. Have a look.

Oh I see your edit. What wouldn't work in his post? It's probably going to happen at some point. Labour haven't come up with any solutions so far. In fact the crossings are increasing.

bombastix · 02/07/2025 19:33

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:24

So DC said the following.....

Operationally, it’s obviously simple to stop the boats. You can deploy the Navy, you can stop the boats.

“The entire problem is legal and constitutional. It’s the interaction of how the European Convention on Human Rights and the Human Rights Act and judicial review system works.

“There is complete agreement between specialists who studied this subject that it is not possible for the British Prime Minister now to deploy the Navy and do the things that you need to do in order to stop the boats. The courts will declare it unlawful because of the Human Rights Act.

“So you have to repeal the Human Rights Act. You have to state that you are withdrawing from the jurisdiction of the Strasbourg Court [the ECHR], you deploy the Navy and stop the boats and you say nobody is landing from these boats. Everyone we pick up will be dropped on an island somewhere.

“No one will be coming to mainland Britain. The boats will be destroyed and the people organising the boats are going to be put on a list for UK special forces to kill or capture the way that we do with various terrorist organisations.”

As soon as you announce that is your policy and take serious steps to do it, the boats stop straight away because the people doing this are not ideological terrorists who want to die and get into a fight about this,” he continues.

“They’re there to make money. So as soon as they realise, oh, an island nation is actually just going to stop these stupid boats, they’re obviously going to send the people somewhere else.”

What do you think, everyone?

I think the part about kill is rather extreme - and quite revealing

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:32

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:29

See my post above re what DC thinks would work.

I have no idea what DC thinks would work, and no belief that anything he thinks would work.

ETA: I’ve read your post and I stand by the second half of my statement above. That rubbish reads like an A level debate. Migration is a global issue, repealing domestic law creates international legal problems that are far greater than small boats. Yes, it’s a problem, yes, it needs a solution but dear old Dom is thinks the solution to anything is to turn and walk away. Look how fantastically that turned out with Brexit.

You’ve acknowledged that you don’t know the first thing about the immigration system and yet you think that what he says would work. The malevolent leading the blind.

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:30

BlueJuniper94 · 02/07/2025 19:17

I think it's just a misspelling, is that really what you consider to be the most salient issue here?

No, I was just curious, I didn’t realise I needed your permission.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:29

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:26

You can literally read up on this stuff online. That’s how I know. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjekx34d70o

I’m not familiar with defence policy I’m afraid, but I don’t think the policy is ‘we’ve already given up’. I mean, I hope not, as I live on the coast.

See my post above re what DC thinks would work.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 19:28

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:24

So DC said the following.....

Operationally, it’s obviously simple to stop the boats. You can deploy the Navy, you can stop the boats.

“The entire problem is legal and constitutional. It’s the interaction of how the European Convention on Human Rights and the Human Rights Act and judicial review system works.

“There is complete agreement between specialists who studied this subject that it is not possible for the British Prime Minister now to deploy the Navy and do the things that you need to do in order to stop the boats. The courts will declare it unlawful because of the Human Rights Act.

“So you have to repeal the Human Rights Act. You have to state that you are withdrawing from the jurisdiction of the Strasbourg Court [the ECHR], you deploy the Navy and stop the boats and you say nobody is landing from these boats. Everyone we pick up will be dropped on an island somewhere.

“No one will be coming to mainland Britain. The boats will be destroyed and the people organising the boats are going to be put on a list for UK special forces to kill or capture the way that we do with various terrorist organisations.”

As soon as you announce that is your policy and take serious steps to do it, the boats stop straight away because the people doing this are not ideological terrorists who want to die and get into a fight about this,” he continues.

“They’re there to make money. So as soon as they realise, oh, an island nation is actually just going to stop these stupid boats, they’re obviously going to send the people somewhere else.”

What do you think, everyone?

Yes it would work whether people will vote for it is the hurdle. Whether the French vote it in first or UK is another factor.

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:28

Dangermoo · 02/07/2025 19:21

She is not important enough to me to care. Does that clear things up for you?

Chill out Dangerpoo, just asking.

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:26

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:19

Well that's obviously not true. How do you know that all the illegal small boats are detained.

If we were at war how would we/did we defend ourselves from invasion from the Channel out of interest? If we've already given up that's not great.

You can literally read up on this stuff online. That’s how I know. For example: https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjekx34d70o

I’m not familiar with defence policy I’m afraid, but I don’t think the policy is ‘we’ve already given up’. I mean, I hope not, as I live on the coast.

A small boat containing migrants in the English Channel off the coast of Dover receiving support from a larger Border Force boat. The white cliffs are in the background

What happens to people who cross the Channel on small boats?

Most people who arrive on small boats will begin the process of claiming asylum.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/czjekx34d70o

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:26

Fringle · 02/07/2025 19:24

Fair. But it is irritating to see the wrong spelling of a public figure’s name who’s then attacked. If they’re that prominent and important get the name right.

Nothing like sweating the small stuff.

Fringle · 02/07/2025 19:24

BlueJuniper94 · 02/07/2025 19:17

I think it's just a misspelling, is that really what you consider to be the most salient issue here?

Fair. But it is irritating to see the wrong spelling of a public figure’s name who’s then attacked. If they’re that prominent and important get the name right.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:24

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:15

We haven’t managed to completely stop illegal migration in all of this nation’s history! And I don’t think many countries actually manage to completely stop it either, though hard to compare given the intricacies of policy and geography.

i assume you’re referring to Dominic Cummings, though I’m not sure he’s anyone’s hero. Well, perhaps his own. What does he know about border security?

Nobody gets waved in, and absolutely nobody gets waived in. Everyone who arrives on a small boat is detained.

So DC said the following.....

Operationally, it’s obviously simple to stop the boats. You can deploy the Navy, you can stop the boats.

“The entire problem is legal and constitutional. It’s the interaction of how the European Convention on Human Rights and the Human Rights Act and judicial review system works.

“There is complete agreement between specialists who studied this subject that it is not possible for the British Prime Minister now to deploy the Navy and do the things that you need to do in order to stop the boats. The courts will declare it unlawful because of the Human Rights Act.

“So you have to repeal the Human Rights Act. You have to state that you are withdrawing from the jurisdiction of the Strasbourg Court [the ECHR], you deploy the Navy and stop the boats and you say nobody is landing from these boats. Everyone we pick up will be dropped on an island somewhere.

“No one will be coming to mainland Britain. The boats will be destroyed and the people organising the boats are going to be put on a list for UK special forces to kill or capture the way that we do with various terrorist organisations.”

As soon as you announce that is your policy and take serious steps to do it, the boats stop straight away because the people doing this are not ideological terrorists who want to die and get into a fight about this,” he continues.

“They’re there to make money. So as soon as they realise, oh, an island nation is actually just going to stop these stupid boats, they’re obviously going to send the people somewhere else.”

What do you think, everyone?

Dangermoo · 02/07/2025 19:23

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 19:23

Spelling with an o not e is the least of Labour’s problems.

😆 🤣 😂 😹 😆 🤣

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 19:23

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:09

Is Raynor some kind of nickname, or just a misspelling? Loads of anti-Labour posters seem to do it so I’m not sure.

(It’s not exclusive to you, your post is just the latest to do so.)

Spelling with an o not e is the least of Labour’s problems.

Dangermoo · 02/07/2025 19:21

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:16

No, I’m specifically asking if Raynor is a nickname, or a misspelling. I thought I was very clear.

She is not important enough to me to care. Does that clear things up for you?

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 19:19

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 19:15

We haven’t managed to completely stop illegal migration in all of this nation’s history! And I don’t think many countries actually manage to completely stop it either, though hard to compare given the intricacies of policy and geography.

i assume you’re referring to Dominic Cummings, though I’m not sure he’s anyone’s hero. Well, perhaps his own. What does he know about border security?

Nobody gets waved in, and absolutely nobody gets waived in. Everyone who arrives on a small boat is detained.

Well that's obviously not true. How do you know that all the illegal small boats are detained.

If we were at war how would we/did we defend ourselves from invasion from the Channel out of interest? If we've already given up that's not great.

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