Two Tier’s days are numbered

There was no black hole.

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/ps22bn-black-hole-was-obvious-anyone-who-dared-look

There was no black hole. RR has made a new one though with the immediate payments to already very well paid state workers such as train drivers.

No. Labour does not design policies for working people in the private sector I'm afraid. We are a cash cow for the state sector. A greater and greater proportion of which is subsided by the private sector which is being hammered.

Labour represents people who work for the state represented by unions, people who are on benefits, immigrants and asylum seekers. All worthy in their own right but a big change from who Labour originally spoke for (the working person).

Yes I occasionally go to the GP but pay for my prescriptions. I pay an awful lot of tax for the privilege.

No I don't use state schools.

I'm not personally worried about the NI increase as I am an employer rather than an employee. i can just reduce head count and not employ people. But I have young adult children who now find it much harder to get jobs.

I have no problem paying tax. But I have problems paying tax to finance mistakes that Labour make for idealogical reasons. Eg APR on farms. Brought in to wind up people like Jeremy Clarkson but will actually devastate farming.

I don't seek to persuade you obviously. Its a difference in approach. Socialists think the state owns everyone's money and then choses how much of you are allowed to keep depending on the particular ideology at any one time, the rest being taken from you by taxation. Conservatives believe we should all own our own assets and income and the state takes what is reasonable in tax to run what is essential for the country. As there have been more conservative governments than Labour, the country generally agrees with the latter approach and hopefully will again in 2029.

@Quirkswork

You say Labour doesn't represent you. Who do you think it represents?

Do you use the NHS? Do you want the government to address the problems with the NHS? Or do you have private healthcare?

Do you educate your children in state schools? What are your problems with Labour's education plans?

I'm going to guess you're angry about the increase in employer's NI? How do you feel Labour should have dealt with the massive black hole in the public finances and the problems with NHS is currently experiencing, without raising more money through taxation?

Last question - are you on a very low income? Do you feel like you're genuinely struggling?

I didn’t say the economy was doing well, I said it was starting to recover. In my view it should have been left to continue on that trajectory. And if you think things can’t get worse than they were under Truss, I’m afraid you are deluded.

If your finances are sinking, you first look to cut your spending and then you make more money. The government has increased spending and damaged economic growth so have done neither of those things. They seem to think that raising taxes = making money. It isn’t, and shows how economically illiterate they really are.

If your finances are sinking, you first look to cut your spending and then you make more money. The government has increased spending and damaged economic growth so have done neither of those things. They seem to think that raising taxes = making money. It isn’t, and shows how economically illiterate they really are.

How is it not relevant? It'd be like me spending all my wages for six months and then saving for one month and saying, 'Look how much I've saved,' not 'Look how much I could have saved.'

The past, given that you are trying to say how well the economy was doing, is more relevant than ever. After falling so far and so fast, there's only one way, and it's back up. The fact is, GDP was down in Truss's time in office, Q3 of 2022 and down again in Q4 of 2022 when Sunak took over—no political point scoring.

Any government would have made a recovery from the utter fallout of her 44 days in office, due to the steps taken by the BoE to reassure investors. That wasn't Tory or Labour.

@Quirkswork

You say Labour doesn't represent you. Who do you think it represents?

Do you use the NHS? Do you want the government to address the problems with the NHS? Or do you have private healthcare?

Do you educate your children in state schools? What are your problems with Labour's education plans?

I'm going to guess you're angry about the increase in employer's NI? How do you feel Labour should have dealt with the massive black hole in the public finances and the problems with NHS is currently experiencing, without raising more money through taxation?

Last question - are you on a very low income? Do you feel like you're genuinely struggling?

After his failure yesterday, it is clear he has no support, is just a figurehead, and is completely toothless.

The unions will smell blood, and yes, I think he'll be gone shortly. They'll put someone further left in, with even less grasp of economics and the UK is genuinely stuffed.

I don't think it'll be Raynor because I don't think the unions will, even now, tolerate a woman.

Then Reform will win a landslide in 2029.

What a complete mess !!

It’s not relevant what it was recovering from (unless you want to do political point scoring which is pretty pathetic). The fact is there was growth and signs of positive performance. And that has been sabotaged through the actions of our own chancellor. Liz Truss was obviously an epic disaster and deserves all the criticism she gets, but that’s beside the point when discussing the present incumbents.

If your finances are sinking, you first look to cut your spending and then you make more money. The government has increased spending and damaged economic growth so have done neither of those things. They seem to think that raising taxes = making money. It isn’t, and shows how economically illiterate they really are.

@Quirkswork

You say Labour doesn't represent you. Who do you think it represents?

Do you use the NHS? Do you want the government to address the problems with the NHS? Or do you have private healthcare?

Do you educate your children in state schools? What are your problems with Labour's education plans?

I'm going to guess you're angry about the increase in employer's NI? How do you feel Labour should have dealt with the massive black hole in the public finances and the problems with NHS is currently experiencing, without raising more money through taxation?

Last question - are you on a very low income? Do you feel like you're genuinely struggling?

Not really, the economy was starting to recover from the utter disaster of Liz Truss, who single-handedly pushed any government back years. it was not doing well, it was recovering.

The Bank of England had to buy gilts to calm the markets, and the good old raise interest rates to curb inflation from 10% has, and still, affects millions of people with their mortgages.

The economy was starting to do quite well when this lot took over. They could have literally done nothing and their performance would have been infinitely better than it has been. We are sunk in just one year of these incompetents.

Really? 🙄🤣

looks like the article is open access (I don’t have a subscription and read most of the first one).

I honestly don’t see how anyone can take his ‘suggestions’ seriously. Even Boris had enough of him.

Kill or capture, drop people off on an island - these are nonsense ideas. He says it’s a legal problem as if the law doesn’t mean anything in real life. However much we might individually disagree or dislike some parts of the law, the idea that it’s simply an obstacle to overcome is ludicrous. Let’s say we leave the ECHR, now we can shoot and kill people who travel into our waters on small boats? What about people who are inside trucks that arrive in the UK? What about visa overstayers?
And what does this new order mean for our global standing? We’re a net importer of food, how quickly do you think Europe would consider sanctions if our government left human rights frameworks and began summarily executing or transporting people? How many countries would impose restrictions on entry for British passport holders?

DC is full of shit, he always was. A smart guy that is more interested in being smart than actually working to a solution.